Braintrust Question: What would you think?

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Nothing as racy as naughty yearbook photos:

I receive a call yesterday on my way home from the Sheriff's Office stating my horses are on the highway and how soon can I correct the situation. I explain I had just left work and it was a 30 minute drive. They state that is too long and I have to come up with another solution. My neighbors are not at home, Wife is further out than I am, I have no other solutions than breaking traffic laws, I do not state this to the dispatcher.

I arrive home. Front gate is closed, section of fence I took down is still down. Horses are in their pasture, internal gates are closed, spare gate I had lying on the ground in back is propped up as a bridge to climb a no-climb gate I have wedged in to block access from one pasture to another. My fences are no-climb style in this area with barbed wire on the top.

Horses say they are hungry (always are if you know horses) so I feed them.

Sheriff's Deputy arrives about 15 minutes later as I have started checking fence line. States the back gates were open (kept chained shut), the back gate to the pasture the horses are currently in was open (tied shut with bailing wire as this gate is actually falling apart), and three horses in the yard, one across the street, and one in back pasture with all the grass.

Horses can be strange but why run to the front where there is no real grass (harvested corn crop some months ago) when the grassland is in back and they had full access to a 30 acre hay pasture as I have the complete fence between my neighbor and me down for replacement? Both were more visible from their exit point than the front of the property. But then again, it WAS getting close to the time when I come home and they do expect me to feed them...

I have one really smart horse who CAN and WILL jump my 4.5 foot fences but she has been rather lazy the past couple of years.

But I do not have horses who can undo chained gates or take off bailing wire.

Events happened immediately after school bus drops off students.

I have many reported incidents of my fence line being cut, sections of fence being removed, gates opened and cattle set loose. Some of these instances have been seen and documented by same Deputies.

Nothing shows on camera.

What do yall think? I had taken to "patrolling" my property recently due to the poaching and increased activity around cut fencing.



I have a misdemeaner summons for this Friday to appear in front of my neighbor, the County Judge.

[oldE]

Do you have the piece of chain which was around the back gate? Was it just hooked or locked? Any obvious signs of tampering?

We have had horses and ponies which were pretty darned adept at untying baler twine from around tie-ups in stalls, and from around gates.
My wife's Morgan learned he could lean over the stall door and move a pivoting block out of the way so he could unhook the catch for the sliding stall door.

I guess what I'm saying is: until you know whether it's kids or just bored horses, the only practical path is to just keep improving the gates and fastenings.

Best of luck.
Les

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Groesbeck Hurricane

Nothing as racy as naughty yearbook photos:


....Events happened immediately after school bus drops off students.

.

I bet you've nailed it, but I had to really struggle reading all the jibberish after the first sentence .

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

IC 15-17-18-8
Animals running at large
Sec. 8. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b), a person responsible for livestock or poultry who knowingly or intentionally permits the livestock or poultry to run at large commits a Class B misdemeanor.
(b) Subsection (a) does not apply to a person who keeps livestock on property by means of a cattle guard or another device under IC 8-17-1-2.1.
As added by P.L.2-2008, SEC.8.


Subsection b does not apply to me.


Knowingly or intentionally is where my defense lies. Up to 180 days in jail and/or fine not to exceed $1,000.00


Les,

Yep them critters can learn lots!

Wire twisted several times, ends turned back. I did not locate the wire yesterday. There was also some old cord on the gate that was laying on the ground. It had rotted.

None of the horses had a mark on them.

Today that gate is replaced with an improved gate with a large rope that has to have a buckle undone.


I will now have to lean heavily on knowingly or intentionally. I just do not see how that could be proved since I was not even home and the fencing and gates were in place, existent.


Investing in more cameras...

[GWN7]

Put a pole up at the gate that was hit the most. 8'-10' up place large wooden box (painted Black) drill one hole 1.5" on bottom and one hole on each side that run along fence line. Attach "Video Camera" sign to pole. (Like this one) Monitored By Video Camera Sign, Security CCTV Sign, SKU: S-4212 That might scare any kids who are screwing with your gates.

[Rot 911]

David, obviously they can't make the "intention" part of the ordinance as a person with valuable animals is not going to intentionally let them escape. They might try to hang their hat on the "knowingly," Their argument will be that you knew or should have known that your gate, fence, etc. was in such a condition that your horses could easily get out of their pasture. You should be prepared to defend against that argument.

[oldE]

David,

Over the years we have changed everything over to "Electrobraid" (no affiliation), even to the point of stringing a piece of it along the inside edge of 'external' gates to discourage scratching. All frequent use gates are chains with clips: pretty much (so far) horse-proof.

All this because, despite the driveway being 1/4 mile long, one day a neighbor (who drives the school bus) called to say he had just chased our horses off the road.

Sometimes I think a boat with a hole in it would be cheaper. (Can you tell I am not the 'horse person' on this place?

If you do end in court, I suggest you advise the judge of your efforts to improve gate security and concerns regarding tampering (if you have evidence of that.)

Best
Les

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Kurt,

Yep, knowingly is the key. This was a pasture that had just been re-fenced, the arguement would be that the gate was an old gate not in the best of repair. My arguement back is that the next two gates in line before exiting the property were closed and latched when I left in the morning and open when officers arrived.

Officers have previously documented where gates were opened and cattle let loose.


Les,

Yep, tampering is the obvious choice. I need to go back to locks on everything not just chains or wires tied up. Hoping to avoid that expense. At least I have several left over from years in Texas. I just have WAY more gates now.

Horse-Guard Fencing is very good. We have some of their stuff from over ten years ago. Used in Texas and Oklahoma summers it is even surviving ice in Indiana.

Yep, horses are for Wife who is the one who bought the Porsches... Anyone have a "cheap" boat with a hole in it? I have water running through my property. I might also be in the market for a good used trailer in which to live ;-)



I do want to put in the pole but I also MUST have the camera's inside. Another expense without budget... Although, I do have the posts laying in the "backyard".



I just think this is all teenagers or adults with nothing better to do. It is happening around me but I am not part of the community, more of an outsider.

[Seahawk]

I had a suspicious episode with horses getting loose. I put a lock on all external gates.

Two sets of keys, one set stays in the truck.

[Bill Douglas]

In this country if someone has made "reasonable efforts" you are OK when it goes to court. There is no "reasonable effort" type thing you could have done to stop this happening.

In future you could think about a hot wire (electric fence) setup. This may dissuade school kid pranksters and other idiots. Hot wire fences also make horses behave themselves a little better too http://www.gallagherusa.com/

[tabs]

This is like saying you INTENTIONALLY and KNOWINGLY wanted to be BURGLARIZED. You have virtually NO CONTROL over people who are being criminally mischivious. U can upgrade your Gates etc to be more tamper resisitant, but how do you stop sopmeone from cutting your fence? Unless of course you catch them in the act.

This is a matter for the Police to rectify...in hindsight you should have reported to the police that someone was vandalizing your fence line. CYA...

All you have to say is when I left the property it was secure...and when I came home it was not.