Police vehicles not following the rules they enforce on us.

[Flieger]

No. Everyone defaults to 4 way stop.

[JJ 911SC]

Police car turned into high-speed snowball There used to be a photo, maybe big brother...

The fine is usually anywhere between $400 to $1,500 and six demerit points off your licence except if you are a cop. Then again they are professional and probably trained for it

Originally Posted by Flieger

No. Everyone defaults to 4 way stop.

Yes but most people don't know the rule when the cars get there at the same time, so they stand there looking at each other;

After a full-stop has been made, vehicles usually have the right-of-way to proceed through the intersection in the order that they arrived at the intersection. In the USA/Canada, if vehicles arrive at approximately the same time, each driver must yield to the drivers on their right

[klm2500hd]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

The stupid cop who writes you the ticket for the stop sign is the same stupid cop who kicked in the door and arrested your brother in law when your brother in law was beating the heck out of your sister.

The stupid cop didn't care whether or not your brother in law had a gun in his hand or if your brother in law was a former GI with mental problems armed with a Rambo knife. The stupid cop heard your sister screaming, so he kicked in the door and went inside to try to help your sister.

He is the same stupid cop. That's what you guys don't get.

So because he arrested a scumbag, that makes it OK to change lanes in the middle of an intersection, without signaling, while on the cellphone, doing 20 over the limit?

[DavidI]

Originally Posted by speeder

I believe you about hating the bad cops but I read this as meaning the David Macks and Rafael Perez types, what about the guys who are not criminals but just give the dept. a bad name with their driving or other macho stupid behavior in uniform? I realize that cops need to be tough and some of the guys are going to be a little rough around the edges but I've seen some deputies really acting like jerks in their squad cars lately. And plenty of others that represent the dept. really well, in and out of the cars. (I usually see LASD deputies in WeHo).

Denis, guys like Macks and Perez are the absolute worst and should have been dealt with the severest penalties! These were not cops; they were criminals wearing uniforms.

You have a great deal of life experience and a very good sense of right and wrong. If you think the supervisor of one of the cops who are driving in a dangerous manner should give this particular cop some attention, do not hesitate to contact the station. This has a positive impact many times. During the course of my career, I have had supervisors sit me down and set me straight.

We had a good time during the ride along several years ago. Stay safe bud, David

[Joe Bob]

DavidI seems to be a level headed officer. SWT should take some lessons.

[DavidI]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

And in this day and age when you "take corrective action", this can and does frequently happen.

This quota stuff is a bunch of bull****, both for the agency and the community. I don't know a whole lot about traffic stuff, but I do know when a traffic cop does his or her job by enforcing traffic rules, the number of accidents is reduced. There should be some discretion though.

I am an optimist by choice my friend. With all the negativity we see in our job, it could affect your work life and your home life. I am not saying we should look at the world with rose glasses, but cops do some heroic stuff on a daily basis. They should be proud of the risks they take.

[DavidI]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

Everyone likes happy endings. But you never mentioned whether or not there was a use of force or whether the suspect "gave up." I am betting that the suspect "gave up."

It's easy when the suspect gives up. There is no command decision to be made when the suspect "gives up." The tough call is when the suspect is inside the room and says, "***** you, we ain't coming out" or simply starts shooting through the door. Do you engage and suffer one of the many possible consequences? Save the hostage, suspect shoots the hostage, suspect shoots cop, or the most acute political emergency, cop shoots and kills hostage?

Enter that room to save the hostage, and the hostage gets killed, the Pelican Brain Trust says that should have retreated and waited him out.

Enter that room to save the hostage, and the cop gets killed, the Pelican Brain Trust says that the cop was a poor marksman.

Hold on the door and while you are waiting for swat, the suspect shoots the hostage and the Pelican Brain Trust says the the cops in the hallway were cowards.

Hold on the door until relieved by swat and the Pelican Brain Trust says that the paramilitary police jack booted thugs etc. entered the room for the express purpose of murdering the 16 year old gang member with the air soft pistol/bb gun.

And if a lawsuit results from any action/inaction, the Pelican Brain Trust says that the cop should be fired and imprisoned immediately WITH IMMEDIATE REVOCATION OF HIS SWEET, FAT POLICE PENSION. (THIS is the most important thing)



At my department we would have set an outer perimeter on the building and notified the swat and negotiation teams.

We would have also formed an entry team, but for the purpose of evacuating the building. When we got to a room that could not be cleared (the room with the suspect and possibly a hostage), we would have set containment (inner perimeter) on that room and hallway and continued evacuating rooms until all patients and staff had been evacuated.

If the suspect presented himself and/or forced a confrontation, then and only then would we have engaged him.

After the building was evacuated, we would have held on that door (where the suspect was barricaded) until relieved by swat.

After the hour and a half that it takes swat to muster/recon and deploy, if the suspect hasn't yet forced a confrontation, then swat will assume control of the scene.

All of this while the assistant city attorney stands by schitting his pants... and hoping that the suspect goes to sleep and the hostages walk out on their own.

Silver, you are right in that we all love the happy endings. However, you and I know that sometimes it does not work out that way. In this case, there were some very difficult components added to it. First, some patients living in the care center suffered from dementia and did not comply with entry team's request. This was extremely difficult because we risked injuring one of them! Although we had a description of the suspect, we know sometimes they change clothes after committing a crime. This was a huge concern for me at the time. At the conclusion, the suspect did not passively submit when confronted by the team. He fought with them and one of my guys was injured. It was a risky situation, but I made the decision to send the team in based upon the exigent circumstances.

We did in fact contain the location and could have waited for the SWAT Team, but it was my decision as the Incident Commander to handle it. Like yourself, many of my years in policework were in high-risk, violent areas, and I am proud of that. We will always be second-guessed by monday morning arm chair quarterbacks, but that should not stop us from doing the right thing based upon the information at the time. I am not afraid to stand up for my decisions, whether they go well or bad.

Policework is ugly. There is no other way to describe it. We have a very short life expectancy after retirement too. As a friend, I would like to suggest a book for you: http://www.amazon.com/dp/0971725403/?tag=googhydr-20&hvadid=9342994884&ref=pd_sl_5jgq0993o8_b. It was given to me by a long-time SWAT guy who I held in the highest regard. We want to live many, many years after retirement my friend, David

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by DavidI

As a friend, I would like to suggest a book for you: Amazon.com: Emotional survival for law enforcement: A guide for officers and their families (9780971725409): Kevin M Gilmartin: Books. It was given to me by a long-time SWAT guy who I held in the highest regard. We want to live many, many years after retirement my friend, David

I have the book. I got it for "free" (thanks taxpayer) when I attended an 8 hour POST course.

I have pretty good balance in my life. A wife 17 years younger than me and an 8 year old daughter can do that for you.

*** Image Edited to protect My 1st Amendment Right which many Pelicans don't believe that I deserve simply because I am a police officer. Eventually, one of these donkeys will figure out where I work and I will probably end up in front of The Boss explaining why I waste my time arguing on the interwebs with a bunch of people who don't matter. But until then.... ***

Take Care David. Remain Principled in all that you do.

[Capt. Crunch]

All Police should carry digital black boxes that record the entire shift.

[speeder]

You think that we will be able to ID you by your moustache??

[speeder]

Here is the behavior that this thread originally addressed, taken to its logical extreme. These people are friends of mine, the mother and the dead daughter. From today's paper:

In fatal LAPD crash, blame proves elusive - latimes.com

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by speeder

Here is the behavior that this thread originally addressed, taken to its logical extreme.

I don't know if I agree with that. These two officers were responding to a call. They may have made mistakes that significantly contributed (and I'm being kind) to the crash, but there was a legitimate emergency situation. They weren't just driving like d*cks for the hell of it.

The spirit of the original post was when LEO display daily driving skills as crappy as the general public, but get a pass on it.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

[Brando]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I don't know if I agree with that. These two officers were responding to a call. They may have made mistakes that significantly contributed (and I'm being kind) to the crash, but there was a legitimate emergency situation. They weren't just driving like d*cks for the hell of it.

Read the whole article. The parts about the officers' statements, reports, witnesses' testimonies.

The PD's "specialists" circled the wagons to protect their own. Even after the on-board computer proved that they lied, corroborated on a falsified statement and work to discredit witnesses' statements.

[...] According to the numbers retrieved from the on-board computer, Eldridge slowed nearly to a stop and then rapidly accelerated about 17 seconds before colliding with Petelski. With the gas pedal pressed to the floor and the engine throttle fully open, his speed climbed from 30 to 50 to 75 mph in a span of 10 seconds. About three seconds before impact — and a fraction of a second before Eldridge hit the brake — the car's speed topped out at 78 mph. [...]

If there was absolute certainty of NO wrong-doing, why did the city officials quickly shift from wanting to pursue the event in court to a settlement + squelch order?

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by Brando

Read the whole article.

I did. My comment was directed at the driving. You know, the events that transpired leading up to the fatal crash. That's what the OP was talking about.

What you're referring to concerns the actions and posturing of the officers and dept after the fact. That may or may not be a coverup--you may or may not find their statements/positions improper--but that is all stuff that happened outside the patrol car.

Stay on topic.

[JJ 911SC]

Originally Posted by Capt. Crunch

All Police should carry digital black boxes that record the entire shift.

I don't think the union would go for that...

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

I will probably end up in front of The Boss explaining why I waste my time arguing on the interwebs with a bunch of people who don't matter.

While we are on that subject, should you be on the losing end of a no knock warrant, I will not lose a seconds sleep.

[silverwhaletail]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

While we are on that subject, should you be on the losing end of a no knock warrant, I will not lose a seconds sleep.

removed - ns

It's a deal.

[georgeinhere]

Wow.

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

removed - ns

It's a deal.

Get under your skin there? Just make sure you are at the front of the stack when you go through the door ok?

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by silverwhaletail

removed - ns

It's a deal.

While I may not have totally agreed with everything in the last couple of comments, the one above sure IMHO came out of left field and was totally not needed...

First off you owe Mrs. Rot an apology and second you need IMHO to spend a few days on a island far away thinking the way we talk about our friends wives.