Then we are in agreement. If you are mechanically talented and willing to research things, you can perform a good job on your own. You need to have some aptitude and ability, but it sounds like you do. I had never worked on a 911 motor, (besides maintenance), before I tackled my 911SC rebuild. I used this board extensively and had help from one of the best Porsche wrenches in the land who happens to be my buddy. You are the kind of guy who can do it.

The really horrible result would come from a shop. A guy with no Porsche knowledge that doesn't need to research because he already knows everything and it's "just a fking car..." There are more "professionals" around like this than any other kind. Guys who think that a subscription to Alldata makes them a specialist on anything on wheels.

I trust me, because I never guess. if I don't know something, I research the living chit out of it. :cool:

All Porsche models have four wheel adjustability. Most Audi models do not.

Adjusting front camber, caster and toe and then rear camber and toe on a 911 3.2 (as an example) takes a lot longer than not really being able to adjust caster on an Audi A4 (as an example) which only has front toe, rear toe and rear camber adjustments.
Front camber and caster can only be adjusted by moving the front cross member...... so no real adjustability.

Not a Ford, but a Subaru WRX short block costs about 2 grand new. It is two case halves, a crank, some rods and some pistons, held together with about ten bolts.

A 911 engine is two case halves, six cylinders that need shims to tolerance, four bolts for each cylinder, a crank, an intermediate shaft, two gears to drive that shaft, some rods and some pistons. More parts and more set up. A 911 has six cylinder heads, WRX has two. A 911 has cam towers. a WRX has not. A 911 has two timing chains, ramps, tensioners, and you need a dial gauge to set them up. A WRX has one belt and a spring loaded tensioner. You line up the marks.

More parts, more setup, more assembly, more time. Add to that the total number of Subies sold VS number of 911s, and there is much more demand for parts, and an economy of scale. There is huge aftermarket for mass produced Subie parts. There is a fair aftermarket for 911 parts, but they are produced in very small quantities, and not at all mass produced.

OTOH, you can probably get your 915 tranny rebuilt for less than a Subie box, because they use standard bearings and simple syncros.

There my be Porsche Tax, but really there are legitimate reasons why 911 engine costs more, and it always did, from day one. Sure, I can take a Subie 2.0 and make it put out about 400 HP fro a lot less than even the cost of Paul's Mustang, but you should take these things into account when you choose your car and not after you buy one.

If you buy the right 911, you will likely never need to do much to the engine, even if you rack up high miles. If you buy one that needs work, you will have to cough up time and or money, and then you can go back to square one. Like MARRIAGE, being happy with a 911 is all about SELECTION.

I got a slightly tatty 84 Euro a few years ago, but with a very, very good motor. I can putter around with interior pieces and paint dings in my spare time. I can rebuild brake calipers for short money in a weekend. But yeah, the motor is worth almost as much as the car. Something to keep in mind when you think about buying one of these things.

You can buy a supercharged Miata, or an early WRX for less than the cost of a 911 top end job. In fact I have, so I know it can be done. You can get a fast Fox body Mustang for short money as well. All of those cars have working AC, and can be as fast as a good 911.

But they are not 911s. There are lots of candies on the shelf. There are Mounds bars, and there are Almond Joys. And then there is licorice.

A 911 is like Licorice. Not everybody likes licorice, but the people who do like it a lot. What you have to ask yourself, is, ''Do I like licorice ?''.

Well, do you ?

I like licorice

Great answer, thanks!

I just had a clutch done on my C4, and mentioned to a buddy that it cost just under 3k. His reply was predictable... "well they must have fugured they could overcharge you because you're driving a Porsche"

but then you look at the bill... yes the parts are expensive (almost 2k worth), but there are a lot of little bits that only makse sense to replace "while you're in there", and there was 10 hours of labor @ $90/hr. The shop worked hard to do it quickly, the parts were expensive... it's just the nature of the beast.

But for someone who doesn't understand that it MAKES SENSE that the parts cost more, and that there is legitimately more labor involved to do the work, then it's easier to sum it up by calling it a "Porsche Tax"

When I replaced the 2.7L engine on my '74 several years ago, I noticed that the engine had the original exhaust from the factory. Sure the exhaust cost more than most, but how many exhaust systems last 37 years?

I don't like the way that any of the american muscle cars look. So my apologies if i offended you.

Complaining why some cars cost more than others whether is new, maintenance, etc. is silly.

A new ford has the same basic parts as a new Ferrari. They should cost the same then?

Yeah, I found this:

"You can buy a fat ugly girl a bucket of wings and a couple of beers.

try that with a hot one

but, but

They are both women.

for a visual, look at both green cars above."

A bit insulting. Frankly, there are folks who love the early 911 with it's cleaner look and think it's a lot more attractive than a "fat" 930.

As far as Pony cars go..uh, don't be too surprised when you come across a hot one that eats your 930 for lunch. Even the base Mustang GT's today make over 400 horsepower, and the lowly V-6 makes 305 horsepower while delivering 31mpg highway.

In 2013, The Shelby GT500 will be hanging with the Ferrari cars, performance wise. 650 horsepower, 200 mph top end...box stock, right off the showroom floor.

I also didn't like your women analogy...saying that those who enjoy living a simpler lifestyle are all fat & ugly while you have to spend boucoup bucks on a "hot" one.

If that's really your take on women, I feel sorry for you...and them!

You know what? I have only been there once or twice at 2 o'clock in the morning, if you know what I mean :), but fat girls need love too! :)

I think the law of supply and demand is probably the biggest factor (and what most folks think is the Porsche tax).

How many 4.6L engines are out there, between the mustangs and trucks and whatever else they came in?

Now, how many Porsche 3.2L motors are there in the US? I bet there are many, many, MANY more of the Ford motor.

When you aren't making the parts by the million, they cost more per unit.

When you have to pay taxes to import the parts from Germany (and possibly export taxes in Germany), that adds to the per piece price.

I also suspect that the parts are built to different standards because the Porsche motors are more highly stressed and more finely engineered. The parts to meet the different standards probably also cause a change in cost.

You're too sensitive for such an aggressive guy.

I certainly wouldn't lock myself in a room with a manual and some tools but I think I will get it done. With this board, the rebuild book, and access to some of the old Burmos Atlanta techs I'll get it back together. I'm nore nervous about the machine work as that is one part that is out of my hands.

This guy isn't too far from me and he just tore apart his Carrera 4 Cam. He doesn't have any experience either, just a set of the shop manuals and an engineering background.

The Carrera designation was used by Porsche for cars equipped with the Fuhrmann designed DOHC flat four engine. Originally designed for the Porsche 550 Spyders as a racing engine it was later installed in production street cars. The 1500cc Four-cam m

Part of the reason I sold the DB4, $800 hand made copper and asbestos layered head gasket, and $300 thrust washers for the crank. Pistons were cheap, I had them made by Vanolia for about $100 each. $1,500 for main bearings. On a Ford 4.6 about $50 for a set of mains.

I'd like to buy a Mustang, really I would. Cheap upfront cost, cheap parts, cheap upkeep. Great motor, especially in Cobra guise. But a large platform, craptastic interior, and sloppy handling just ruin it for me. Maybe the new Boss 302 is an improvement, but that's way outside my price range.

Somehow someway I suspect his is the spirit, the zeitgeist maybe, that compelled Wayne to unleash these forums

Stick with older P-cars Matt. They better fit your personality, methinks.

Yes Sir. Gasket kit for a recent engine rebuild on a Depression Era classic Lincoln V8 cost $600. Nothing fancy but just for a big stroker flat head motor.

Parts are volume based from suppliers and if the parts cross-ref over a broader model line or perhaps into other brands, it usually brings the cost down. Simply no comparison between Porsche's considered low volume and Ford's high numbers. As for the 4.6, have you ever looked how minimalist Ford engineers went on saving? Haven't seen the latest but it used to be the heads cleverly could be for left or right bank, the camshafts with pressed on lobes, etc. Can't say anything Ford proud of the crap chain and tensioners but amazing the percentage of them holding together. By the way, many of the Ford parts available through aftermarket chain stores are actually genuine Ford from their suppliers. I worked for a company in the 1990's and as a parts marketing arm of Ford. With Ford's approval we moved many parts and complete components, but without the label. We did the same into other markets for OEM.

Getting into any modern day motor rebuilds doesn't happen as much these days anyways. Its all R&R short / long blocks. The same goes for modern day Porsche's. Dealers swap Boxster motors at $15-16 k all the time... take a number please, next in line. Ford dealers do the same or its trade-in time for the customer. They don't rebuild anything.

I would agree with Zeke on all the extra 'measures' and ideally the extra machine work. That set-up time cost in a machine shop. Shop rates are way inflated these days (another topic) but it pays ten-fold to find a great machine shop. So many shops today destroy heads or do more harm. A performance build (not stock) of a V6 and same era (late 80's) of the 3.2 911 motor will run an average $5 to 8 all depends how deep one wants to go.

Ever price out some run of the mill Honda, Toy, Nissan motor parts? That old 3.2 911 doesn't look so bad after all.

Why do you hang out on a Porsche forum when you seem to deeply dislike Porsche owners?

My above statement doesn't apply to the brand new Mustangs, as they have dramatically improved interior quality that is competitive in the price range. But the older 4.6 cars? Please. It has an econobox quality interior, an opinion echoed by just about every magazine review I've ever read. The newer the Mustang the better the interior, but I just can't get past the poor quality.

As for the rest of my comments, it's a big muscle car. The newer ones handle well, but it's a big muscle car. You can't hide size and weight.

Deeply dislike? HOOT! Actually, I find the P-car owners who drip elitism funnier than hell. Enjoy your old 996, Matt...it's a jewel.

And here we go again.......

Perhaps you need to look up the definition of elitest before you go throwing names around, before you insult someone you should really understand what you're saying. That statement insinuates that I look down on drivers of other cars because I am, of course, a Porsche snob. Never mind the fact that I do and have owned cars from just about every make, including a *gasp* Ford. While I certainly enjoy Porsches quite frankly I more enjoy just cars, and I appreciate them from all eras and makers. I find it ironic that you drive a Mustang that was substantially more expensive to purchase than my 996, yet I'm being accused of snobbery. I drive used cars because I can't afford a new one, I am a man of modest means and have never represented myself as anything but.

Of course you're simply taking an act from PARF - if you can't argue your point with facts, just call names. It's easier than constructing a rational argument, particularly an argument that you can't win with facts. The fact of the matter is that I can find multiple articles from nationally known car magazines that echo exactly my sentiments about the Mustang, particularly the older 4.6 models. But lets not let facts get in the way of a good argument, because I know as well as I'm wasting my time writing this that you'll come back with some sort of oblivious retort about how fantastic Mustangs are, probably including a picture and some sort of statement showing how clever you think you are. The reality is that you're just a sad man trolling a Porsche forum, allowing your insecurities about being a former owner to manifest themselves in new found hatred for the marque you once enjoyed. Because a club can't possibly be cool if you're not a member of it, right?