Data Mining Consumers

[Jim727]

Legion, that is FUNNY.

[Head416]

Originally Posted by Jim727

My question still stands: how is it that commercial interests are allowed to flaunt our Constitutional protections when gov't is (mostly) expected to be subject to them?

Those Constitutional protections you quoted protect citizens from the government. They don't protect you from your neighbor writing down a log of your activities.

[Jim727]

^^^
Not so sure about that - it would depend on what they planned to do with it. Stalking a wife/daughter, for example. Or monitoring a home for breakin.

If they kept records and sold such records then they would essentially be performing as an unlicensed private detective or worse.

Plus, I disagree with your basic premise. Though the internet and electronic data collection didn't exist at the time, I doubt the founding fathers would have said "applies except where profit motive is involved". A right to privacy was clearly envisioned.

[Head416]

I think if a government agency (like the FBI or BATFE) tried to collect this mined data to investigate citizens, then that would be a violation of the 4th amendment, unless they had a warrant of course.

A company logging its customer interactions just seems so natural to me. I worked for an investment adviser that used a customer relationship management application to record all interactions with clients. Including every phone call, lunch meetings, details about the family, etc. Is this any different? I understand why people don't like it. But it just seems like an extension of the same thing. If somebody proposed a law that would prevent logging information from electronic transactions without customer consent, I would be all for it. I just don't see how it violates the 4th amendment.

[Jim727]

Yes, I think it's different.

If a company kept that data to themselves for purposes of ensuring bills are paid or other transactions acceptable to the partners, then no problem. All parties agree.

When the data is collected and pooled and/or resold to parties potentially unacceptable to the profiled person then it's absolutely beyond acceptable and at that point is an invasion of privacy (i.e., unreasonable search).

[MRM]

Jim, do you realize that by its very nature, the Constitution ONLY applies to the government, don't you? The Constitution does not regulate private citizens and it does not apply to coporate activities. Statutes and regulations regulate people and corporations. The Constitution only limits government powers.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by MRM

The Constitution only limits government powers.

Outside of PARF, this is incorrect. The Constitution creates and empowers a government. Much of the limitations are in the amendments.

[id10t]

Originally Posted by Jim727

That covers just a bit of it, however.

Have 'flash' installed on your computer? It has a unique fingerprint. Allow cookies? DoubleClick (among others) loves them.

There's a reason Google bought Youtube and DoubleClick.

Credit card records are really just a minor part of personal profiling (read: spying) today.

Simple...

$ cat /etc/hosts
127.0.0.1       localhost
127.0.1.1       id10t.domain.invalid    id10t

0.0.0.0 ad.doubleclick.net googleads.g.doubleclick.net www.google-analytics.com

[stealthn]

You guys are funny talking about privacy as you type on the Internet, if you only realized that EVERYTHING sent and received is or can be captured all the time and permamently stored FOREVER, then you'll be absorbed.

Ever notice the dark buildings next to the location of the undersea fibre on both coasts....just saying

[intakexhaust]

Cray supercomputers and data banks are around the world. Odd to think your dead granny, her financials and even her ancestors are parked on them, long before computers were invented. What is privacy anyways? To keep ones knowledge and info away from 'others'. And who are the 'others'? No law is EVER going to stop spying.

Sort of related but freaked me out:

Too funny but probably is creating a new form of mental sickness. I know of a fellow who takes it to the extreme and getting very reclusive. Has no TV, PC or mobile phone and is so spooked about keystroking. I don't even know if he has a phone line anymore. He's an odd duck and worried about his collection. As an example he sometimes uses a forum of his interest in special vintage cars, registered alias user (OK and normal), but only uses a public library PC (not sure if he has his own card or if ask for an assistant). He uses a Paint program and just types his message, saves it as an image. The image, now with a message is posted. He moved a few cars internationaly and just a worry freak. Now thats taking it to the extreme!

[cstreit]

I've recently started using Ghostery (Ghostery.com) to cut down on tracking...

[doug_porsche]

This is a fun issue for me.
I do not like being tracked.
Target, and others, are tracking you to sell you more of what you want and/or going to buy anyway.

[island911]

Originally Posted by Superman

Corporations have your best interests at heart. Limiting their freedom messes up the "free market" checks and balances. They use this information to better serve your needs. Just ask the folks over on PARF.

Originally Posted by Superman

Outside of PARF, this is incorrect. ....

Either Inside, or Outside of PARF, Corporations are run by people - some suck ass, some are useful. btw, this site is a corp, iirc.

sheesh supe, is logic no longer on the table? ...just have to drum-beat the simplton dogman?

[stealthn]

Google = Evil too

Ban it

[Jim727]

sorry for the late reply - has been an 'interesting' 10 days at work.

Originally Posted by MRM

Jim, do you realize that by its very nature, the Constitution ONLY applies to the government, don't you? The Constitution does not regulate private citizens and it does not apply to coporate activities. Statutes and regulations regulate people and corporations. The Constitution only limits government powers.

Have to disagree with you there. Your premise would imply, for example, that your employer could enter your home without permission to enforce some mandate that the employer had. It would imply that your employer could require you to submit all your personal computers for examination to enforce an employer compliance desire. No. The Bill of Rights ensures they cannot do this or any number of other things that would violate your Constitutional rights. The Bill of Rights does not apply only to the government. It was drummed into us in my MBA program that you cannot enforce any provision of a contract that violates or waive someones Constitutional rights.

[Jim727]

Originally Posted by stealthn

You guys are funny talking about privacy as you type on the Internet, if you only realized that EVERYTHING sent and received is or can be captured all the time and permamently stored FOREVER, then you'll be absorbed.

Ever notice the dark buildings next to the location of the undersea fibre on both coasts....just saying

Actually, I think the internet is one of the better places for such a discussion. Your point about the permanence of data is absolutely correct. Another reason for paying attention to privacy rights.

[gprsh924]

Track me all you want.

It focuses ads to me, let's me know about things I'm actually interested in, gets me discounts, etc

It's a new world. Embrace it

[Jim727]

Not.

Just what I want. More ads.

[lane912]

r.e. club cards at supermarkets-

when a ex girlfrien broke up with me rather rudely, I went to safeway and signed up for a new card; as i know that the clerks use this to greet the customer by name, I used her first name followed by khooent. all that was left was to switch cards in her purse.....

[id10t]

Cory Doctorow has a short story "Scroogled" which deals with this sorta.

In his tale, google keeps your search results, search terms, etc. private. But to make the .gov happy, they give access to a record of what *advertisements* you've been served up.

Originally Posted by Head416

I think if a government agency (like the FBI or BATFE) tried to collect this mined data to investigate citizens, then that would be a violation of the 4th amendment, unless they had a warrant of course.

A company logging its customer interactions just seems so natural to me. I worked for an investment adviser that used a customer relationship management application to record all interactions with clients. Including every phone call, lunch meetings, details about the family, etc. Is this any different? I understand why people don't like it. But it just seems like an extension of the same thing. If somebody proposed a law that would prevent logging information from electronic transactions without customer consent, I would be all for it. I just don't see how it violates the 4th amendment.