worth 5 mintues of your time

[cockerpunk]

Neil deGrasse Tyson - We Stopped Dreaming (Episode 1) - YouTube

[GH85Carrera]

I have to agree with him. We have given up space to the Russians and the Chinese. We have outsourced the space program with the same results as outsourcing the steel production. We are fast becoming a second rate country.

[Moses]

There is no "tomorrow" without public funding of space exploration? What an idiot.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Moses

There is no "tomorrow" without public funding of space exploration? What an idiot.

you like that computer you typed that on?

the miniaturization of computational power is probably the single greatest achievement of the moon shot. without the moon shot, you probably don't have that computer in front of you.

now, the internet, you know, the next thing that is required for thing conversation to take place. devolved and built by the DoD, CERN, and other government funded labs.

[lane912]

NASA was a "job creation machine" look at how many really profitable things came from NASA development.

this was true trickle down effect

[john70t]

(cough parf) Where did the funding/money go?

[Moses]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

you like that computer you typed that on?

the miniaturization of computational power is probably the single greatest achievement of the moon shot. without the moon shot, you probably don't have that computer in front of you.

now, the internet, you know, the next thing that is required for thing conversation to take place. devolved and built by the DoD, CERN, and other government funded labs.

Nonsense. It's the exact same argument given by artists. As if there was no great art before the National Endowment for the Arts.

I'm typing this on a Mac. I don't believe that Mr. Job's accomplishments were impossible without NASA funding.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by lane912

NASA was a "job creation machine" look at how many really profitable things came from NASA development.

this was true trickle down effect

think of how useful even the direct technological applications of a mars shot -

growing/creating food with limited water/sun/minerals
chemically creating fuel with limited resources
living/working for long periods of time in hostile conditions
living with near self sufficiency
water purification and recycling and use

that is just the DIRECT technological applications required for a mars shot. now, like the computer, like the internet, technology has an amazing "greater then the sum of its parts" property. you can only imagine what spin offs of such technology would become, and how lifestyle changing they could be (just imagine a world without the interent, computers, cell phones, and satellite technology).

this stuff pervades ALL of our modern, first world lifestyle.

why is it so much to ask to do something amazing, again? don't tell me we don't have the money. don't tell me its a bad investment, don't tell me the private sector will handle it. we can't afford not to do it.

[anotherblack944]

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Moses

Nonsense. It's the exact same argument given by artists. As if there was no great art before the National Endowment for the Arts.

I'm typing this on a Mac. I don't believe that Mr. Job's accomplishments were impossible without NASA funding.

well on the last part, they would be impossible, so yeah. sorry, the technology to make and the justification to miniaturize transistors came from the space program. or do macs not run on transistors in your world? your ignorance of technology isn't an argument.

the argument is the same with art, of course. but the outcome is fundamentally different.

science and technology changes and improves our lives daily. science and technology build our economy. science and technology build our lifestyle. if you want a service based economy, a second rate lifestyle, and healthcare, don't invest in technology. not worthwhile.

[GH85Carrera]

Look at any intensive care hospital and all the remote monitoring of patients. All from trying to monitor the astronauts.

[Moses]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

well on the last part, they would be impossible, so yeah. sorry, the technology to make and the justification to miniaturize transistors came from the space program. or do macs not run on transistors in your world? your ignorance of technology isn't an argument.

the argument is the same with art, of course. but the outcome is fundamentally different.

science and technology changes and improves our lives daily. science and technology build our economy. science and technology build our lifestyle. if you want a service based economy, a second rate lifestyle, and healthcare, don't invest in technology. not worthwhile.

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Look at any intensive care hospital and all the remote monitoring of patients. All from trying to monitor the astronauts.

The advances in semiconductors, transistors and miniaturization required for today's computers were inevitable. With or without NASA.

Technological advances move at the pace demanded by industry.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Moses

The advances in semiconductors, transistors and miniaturization required for today's computers were inevitable. With or without NASA.

Technological advances move at the pace demanded by industry.

yup, and the space program was that demand. thats why we invented those things.

it was only later, we said "man, we can do this pretty cheaply and easily, lets make consumer electronics with this technology"

[vash]

what about satellites? with respect to our communication.

just fanning the flames here..

[vash]

TANG? i like me some TANG. and freezed dried food is really lightweight for backpacking.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

growing/creating food with limited water/sun/minerals

Agree. Already an issue. Population on earth has grown expotentially. 2x-3x in my limited lifetime.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

chemically creating fuel with limited resources

No comment.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

living/working for long periods of time in hostile conditions

No comment.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

living with near self sufficiency

Not controllable from a centralized source.
No comment.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

water purification and recycling and use

Fresh water is already technologically valid and available on a mass scale using solar/nuclear de-salination.
No comment.

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

this stuff pervades ALL of our modern, first world lifestyle.

Agree.

[cockerpunk]

i also think neil is talking about much more then just direct and indirect technology development. i think that is a very compelling case, but thats not the totality of his point.

he is talking fundamentally about the cultural impact and the impact on the world a culture can have by pushing boundaries, expanding horizons and investing in people and institutions that make people think, make people dream, and make people want to be scientists, engineers, mathematicians, and go out there and even if they don't work in the space program, they are the ones that design our consumer goods.

he is talking about a passion for science, engineering and technology. our culture has lost that. because we lost the cultural dreams we once had. as much as the astronauts were heroes, it was the guys with pocket protectors, and funny glasses the guys who did the math on the slide rules, and the work they did and later was built upon by the next generation ... they are the heroes. there passion is as important as any technical creation they built, or rather, the passion they inspire in our culture, the passion they inspire in our students.

[slakjaw]

Sputnik sent HI in morse. HI is morse code for LOL.

[scottmandue]

Outer space is so 1970's...

it is not the future... it is the past...

Opining about bringing back the space program is like dreaming about bringing back the 50's and 60's...

There is a LOT of technology out there to be expanded on... exploring our oceans for a start... alternate fuels/power sources... etc.

We stopped dreaming because we are stuck like a woolly mammoth in the tar pits...can't... move... forward...

[island911]

Wait wait . . . How much funding does Apple have right now?