Students Protest Student Loans - Rant

[asphaltgambler]

I caught this on Fox news here in the Metro area. Students are protesting student loans! Seems that soon (July) the rates are set to increase. By how much I dunno.

However, when asked (on camera) all the students had to complain about was the fact they had to REPAY their loans. Most indicated owing sums of excess of $40-50K with a few in excess of $70k. Those interviewed believed that because of the poor economy their loan balance should be reduced or eliminated. Further answers were along the lines were: "No opportunity for work after I graduate - so why pay back all this money - it will take years to pay that off"

NO PARF here just venting. I worked my way through college. It was the only way I could go. I did not do that well in high school to take advantage of scholarship programs. My choice at that time.

I know of peers who did the student loan route some partial and worked / some borrowed the full amount..........................and took a portion of that for "other expenses"

Kids - You owe what you borrowed

[daepp]

I think this is non-partisan at least: the cost of their education HAS gone up with all the grant and loan money available. Tuition went up at or above the rate of the increased dough to pay for it. The real question is where did that money go? I think it's the faculties and administrators who IMO have very cush jobs and very high pay.

Look just to a private college that takes no grants or loan money and you can see the tuition is a full 50% less than the comparable school.

[red-beard]

I've always wondered why there is no analysis of what you are studying in college, how much you are borrowing and expected income afterwords, along with periodic review of grades. If you're getting a mortgage your income is checked, the property is inspected and value reviewed and your credit score is checked. These match with perfect analogs to student loans.

Oh, it's a government's program. Never-mind.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

I worked my way through college. It was the only way I could go. I did not do that well in high school to take advantage of scholarship programs. My choice at that time.

One of the guys who went to college with me in the early 1980's lived in a Van. He was older than we were, and had been in the Army. He had some money saved from the ACF, but not enough for a dorm room. He bought a van and lived in the parking lot. He moved the van once in a while. He showered in the gym. He was on meal plan.

He was studying Electrical Engineering.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I've always wondered why there is no analysis of what you are studying in college, how much you are borrowing and expected income afterwords, along with periodic review of grades.

There shouldn't be student loans for any course of study that doesn't have a good chance of producing an earner capable of repaying the loan. The reason tuitions have skyrocketed is because so few people pay with their own money. When I was 18, I had no idea what $50k worth of debt was. Those were just imaginary numbers to me. I have a lot of universities as clients and it's amazing how many of them want to market to foreign students because they all pay full tuition and without loans.

[asphaltgambler]

That is a h3ll of a (and inspiring) story of determination and accomplishment. Sallie-may who is the guarantor of these loans only specifies that the educational institution meets their guidelines. It is assumed the borrower knows what he/she is doing

A related (somewhat) story........back when the Tech boom in the DC/Va/MD area was in full swing there were numerous for profit IT schools popped up and doing business. When the Tech boom went bust...........................so did some of the schools and the students loan money.

There were numerous cases where just before a school shut down, diminished teaching hours, reduced staff, etc. Then one day the students showed up for class and there was no "school" - just an empty building

These same students complained to their financial instituion and Sallie-May. The schools had fleeced them and was gone.along with their money. And most were no where near graduation. The response was...........tough *****. You borrowed the money, it was up to you to choose wisely. You still owe the money. Period.

Now that IS a tough situation.

[Scuba Steve]

You'll trade one problem for another. Make student loans dischargeable and you reintroduce risk (aka reality) to the situation. The money dries up to some effect, but now the argument becomes "won't someone think of the children!!!"

Student loans have been removed from reality for long enough that a sudden return to it would be just as disruptive as continuing along the same path towards disaster that we're on right now.

[red-beard]

Steve, they are even further from reality now. Under Obamacare, the student loan program was nationalized.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by georgeinhere

I have a solution, make the institutions warranty the loans and not the government. I bet universities would be extra careful with their money dispensing machines.

Then again, it may just create a situation when only people that can afford to go to school will qualify for loans. Ok, I don't have the solution but know that the present system isn't working.

Actually, not a bad idea. The loans should be dispersed from the school, with an eye toward being paid back, with interest. Car companies make car loans...

[asphaltgambler]

For those of you who may not know, these loans are virtually from the lenders view w/o risk. Student loans are exempt from bankruptcy filings, if you are behind and receive an income tax tax refund, they will take it. If you are on unemployment and behind they will take a percentage. There is no way to avoid repaying.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by georgeinhere

I have a solution, make the institutions warranty the loans and not the government. I bet universities would be extra careful with their money dispensing machines.

Then again, it may just create a situation when only people that can afford to go to school will qualify for loans. Ok, I don't have the solution but know that the present system isn't working.

It might create a situation where only people who have a chance of paying back the loans would be going, or those who have independant means. It might shift people into thinking about what they will do after college, instead of Spring Break.

[intakexhaust]

Haven't heard of student whiners around Chicago. Drive past the parking lots in Chicago area high schools, colleges, universities and I usually see a nice assortment of cars. BMW's, Audis, VW, Toyota's, numerous brands of new SUV's seem to be popular. As a matter of fact I know of a kid in a suburban college who has a nice late model 3 series. None of my business and good for them if they can afford an education and enjoy the toys.

[KNS]

Kids want to be given everything. While a bit off topic, I was at the auto parts store the other day- they were swamped. I asked if someone called in sick. The gal behind the counter said no, they couldn't get good people show up, they actually had several job openings.

She said that while it doesn't pay a whole lot, it really wasn't a bad job. The problem is that they hire people and the keep showing up late for work, if at all.

[jhg41977]

I just recently graduated with a degree in Civil Engineering from a state school. I have a few observations.

1) We spend way too much money on items which have no real value. College campuses are beautiful. Why? Does it really contribute anything to your education? Sure it is nice, but if you were given am itemized bill for your tuition and there was a line for "Grounds Maintenance and Improvements" for say $1200 a semester, would you feel like scratching it out?

2) Professors are often instructing classes well below their value. I was fortunate to have several well educated Professors who also had a great amount of real world experience to share. This is great for conversation and it does enable them to answer just about any question you may have, but is the University using them best when they are instructing a freshman math or physics class? Would it not be better to have them instruct once per week and have a grad student the remainder of the time? Or even a 'lesser' Professor teach the entire course? It was beneficial to have such great Professors, but I think base level courses could be taught by someone less expensive.

3) Gym/Activities. The activities fee for school was something like $1500 a semester. I would have loved to just eliminate that. I didnt have time for them anyway. I did see the gym once. It was great. On par with the nicest gym you would find out in the real world.

4) Textbooks. Why do Professors insist on a new edition every year? I spent close to $400 a semester on required books (even through Amazon rather than the bookstore) Most of the time the only info that changed was the practice questions in the back. It seemed like they rotated questions every other or every third edition. There is no need for new editions every year. None. Unless you are a PhD student studying the very latest something. At that point, I imagine you would be reading journals and papers instead.

5) New buildings. Wow. I cant believe how many new or newly renovated buildings we had on campus. They were beautiful. Way beyond 'necessary' in my opinion. Im not saying we need concrete buildings with no ac and minimal lighting, but there were definitely areas that could be cut for cost.

6) Cafeteria. Have you been to a campus Cafe lately? Ponderosa on steroids. Anything you want they pretty much had. Most of it was not necessary. Very nice, but not necessary.

So theres my point of view. As far as students not feeling it was fair to pay it back because they didnt have a job? Tough. You didnt understand how much debt you were going to rack up? Really?

[KaptKaos]

Many are saying that the student loan bubble is the next one to burst. I think these protests are preemptive strikes in the coming battle to save the student loan programs. Not sure if this is true or not, but many Universities are unduly expensive because of these programs.

[Mark Henry]

But isn't a college education a right???
A degree in basket weaving should land everyone a $100k job, right?
No one without a degree has ever made it big, right?
No trade should never earn more than a college grad, right?

[widebody911]

This is a multi-faceted problem. First of all, we have to accept that education is an industry, and student loans are a form of subsidy. It's analogous to the legendary ripoffs in the defense industry, when they were selling the US government $1200 toilet seats.

• The student loan program is a cash cow for the education industry, both public and private. Some 'schools' get upwards 90% of their revenue from this stream.
• The specifications for this 'product' have become bloated.
• The education industry pushes a lot of 'products' that aren't worth anything in the real world, ie degrees in 16th Century Left-Handed Basket Weaving.
• The education industry has convinced people that you need some form of their product, no matter how arcane, or you're not employable.
• Employers have also been convinced that they should only hire people who have bought the product.
• People get a degree because they're taught that any degree is better than no degree
• clueless kids out of high school go to college with no FN clue, and just want to party
• a lot of the private 'schools' are selling 'degrees' that are are utter schidt. I've seen the course catalogs of some of these, and it's a ripoff.

I'm not saying all college education is worthless; we need doctors, engineers, and (grits teeth) lawyers. My feeling is that if your degree doesn't prepare you for a profession or trade, why are you spending the money?

For the record, I don't have a college education. I couldn't afford it, and the prospect of being thousands and thousands of dollars in the hole right off the get-go terrified me, but that's a story for a different day.

[s_morrison57]

I remember when the CDN gov't gave control of the student loans to the Royal Bank, I thought that was a bad move
Its sad that people have to take loans at all but a lot of people incur huge debt for a degree that there are no jobs for, marine bioligist comes to mind, or rack up a huge student loan for a degree that when applied doesn't pay all that well.
IMO a lot of people don't crunch the numbers and just get "a degree at all cost" and then realize that they don't make the money they thought they would and end up not really liking the job.
I did a numbers cruntch and got out of collage and got into a speciality trade and from the start made more money than the project managers with their degree's, sure my job was tougher and longer hours but I didn't care about that, I wanted money and time off.
IMO the trades are over looked and a collage degree is the path taken but sadly that comes with loans.

[look 171]

I know a young French teacher who racked up about 150k in loans, but she did have a Masters in French and studied in France and all over Europe. Dine at some fancy places throughout the land on that wonderful loan. What a hell of a time? I am glad she did it and not me. She can't keep her job as a French teacher, and are pissed because they need spanish teachers more then French. Now she is in deep debt, crying and *****ing about how unfair it is. That's OK, it is all for the name of education. Gotta to learn, you know? Oh, she drives a Prius that's about one year old. She's waiting for her loan forgiveness. People like that still do not know why this is happening. This is because they have this unlimited funds that they can just pick from the money tree. Same siht that they are doing in my kid school. They want the parents to prepaid for a lunch credit card so they can just scan and get their meal. I kicked and scream about it. they pay for their meal daily and manage their money how ever small the amount is. If they dropped their money, they ain't going to loose it again the next day. One meal isn't going to hurt them. For the students who paid into the tech school that closed down and ran away with their money, let that be the lesson. I am sure they are not going to do it again are they?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by widebody911

This is a multi-faceted problem. First of all, we have to accept that education is an industry, and student loans are a form of subsidy. It's analogous to the legendary ripoffs in the defense industry, when they were selling the US government $1200 toilet seats.

• The student loan program is a cash cow for the education industry, both public and private. Some 'schools' get upwards 90% of their revenue from this stream.
• The specifications for this 'product' have become bloated.
• The education industry pushes a lot of 'products' that aren't worth anything in the real world, ie degrees in 16th Century Left-Handed Basket Weaving.
• The education industry has convinced people that you need some form of their product, no matter how arcane, or you're not employable.
• Employers have also been convinced that they should only hire people who have bought the product.
• People get a degree because they're taught that any degree is better than no degree
• clueless kids out of high school go to college with no FN clue, and just want to party
• a lot of the private 'schools' are selling 'degrees' that are are utter schidt. I've seen the course catalogs of some of these, and it's a ripoff.

I'm not saying all college education is worthless; we need doctors, engineers, and (grits teeth) lawyers. My feeling is that if your degree doesn't prepare you for a profession or trade, why are you spending the money?

For the record, I don't have a college education. I couldn't afford it, and the prospect of being thousands and thousands of dollars in the hole right off the get-go terrified me, but that's a story for a different day.

I agree with everything Thom said. The sad part, really, is the point about employers. So many employers "require" a bachelor's degree simply because they can, not because it's really necessary for the position. Large corporations also have pay grades that automatically pay someone with a degree, or advanced degree, more than a non-degreed counterpart -- regardless of performance.

Prospective students know that it's simply getting your ticket punched. You've got to get a degree -- any degree -- to have the doors of employment open for you. So they rack up $100K in debt with the understanding that their lifetime earning power will be more than that $100K.

My ex had a degree in Psychology from a prestigious private school. $100K in debt at graduation ($42K/yr and took 5 years -- her parents were in over $100K as well). She was simply unemployable in her field. Every job that posted a BA requirement ended up hiring a MA or PhD because they could. She ended up working at a law firm, nothing to do with her degree, and making MORE than what others with her degree were making in her field. She now works in the banking industry where she is responsible for training and integrating all of the recent college grads they hire. She says the business/accounting grads are absolutely unprepared for the real world jobs. She's amazed at how clueless this generation seems to be. And she's only 29.