Ford reveals battery cost for EV's

[p911dad]

This in tonight's on line WSJ. It might be of interest to this forum, as this topic has been batted around at various times.

AUTOS
Updated April 17, 2012, 4:28 p.m. ET
.Ford CEO: Battery Is Third of Electric Car Cost .Article Stock Quotes Comments (57) more in Auto Industry News | Find New $LINKTEXTFIND$ ».Email Print Save ↓ More .
.smaller Larger By MIKE RAMSEY
One of the auto industry's most closely guarded secrets—the enormous cost of batteries for electric cars—has spilled out.

Speaking at a forum on green technology on Monday, Ford Motor Co. F +0.25%Chief Executive Alan Mulally indicated battery packs for the company's Focus electric car costs between $12,000 and $15,000 apiece.

"When you move into an all-electric vehicle, the battery size moves up to around 23 kilowatt hours, [and] it weighs around 600 to 700 pounds," Mr. Mulally said at Fortune magazine's Brainstorm Green conference in California.

"They're around $12,000 to $15,000 [a battery]" for a type of car that normally sells for about $22,000, he continued, referring to the price of a gasoline-powered Focus. "So, you can see why the economics are what they are."

Ford is currently promoting its $39,200 Focus EV at events around the country. It has a 23 kilowatt-hour battery pack. A Ford spokeswoman said Mr. Mulally's comments were designed to provide a indication of the car's battery costs.

Based on the price range that Mr. Mulally indicated, Dearborn, Mich.-based Ford appears to pay between $522 and $650 a kilowatt-hour for its electric-vehicle batteries. In the past, auto makers and battery makers have been reluctant to disclose the cost per kilowatt hour. Analysts have made projections that battery costs are between $500 and $1,000 per kilowatt-hour.

The U.S. Department of Energy, as part of its efforts to help promote plug-in hybrid- and fully-electric vehicles, has set a goal of lowering the cost of batteries to $300 a kilowatt-hour by next year. The DOE has helped to fund battery plants in the U.S. to install the capacity, and ideally lower the cost of batteries.

Ford hasn't provided projections for anticipated sales of its EV, but has made the point that it doesn't need to achieve high volumes because it is building the Focus EV on the same line as the gasoline-powered version. It sold just 10 to fleet customers late last year and now is building more of the vehicles at its plant in Wayne, Mich.

[porwolf]

Exactly why these battery electric or big battery hybrids don't make sense, environmentally and otherwise. Besides the whole electrical charging situation has not been worked out yet, if it ever will. Electric energy is not free either and produced largely by burning hydrocarbons. Then about 30% is lost in the power transmission lines. Especially if they are long distance.

A better solution would be diesel-electric cars. A small battery would store peak power and braking energy. Electric motors are made for high torque at any speed, especially at low RPM's. And they don't need transmissions. The diesel engine would charge the battery at constant speed, in it's most efficient and least polluting mode of operation. A standard tank can be charged in minutes and would hold plenty of fuel. Diesel fuel supply systems are in place and proven.

[island911]

Prediction: Radio Shack will be giving away free electric cars. (batteries not included)




. . .and to do so they'll get a half a Billion in "loans" wink wink (as long as they make a 2% campaign contribution kick-back)

[sc_rufctr]

It's a joke really considering batteries are a consumable. That is they'll need to be replaced at somepoint in the cars life... So the cost will see many electric cars on the scrap heap ready to be recycled once the batteries are spent.
Most new cars are disposable. Why would electric cars be any different?

What I'd really like to knows how long does a battery pack last before it needs to be replaced?

Personal transport has always been expensive. I don't want to even think about what I've e spent on cars over they years

[sammyg2]

Yeah, but those batteries last forever!

Hey, I know a way to make them cheaper: let's make the taxpayers pay for the batteries, then they'll be almost free!

[porsche4life]

Originally Posted by island911

Prediction: Radio Shack will be giving away free electric cars. (batteries not included)




. . .and to do so they'll get a half a Billion in "loans" wink wink (as long as they make a 2% campaign contribution kick-back)

You've been on the crack rock again haven't you?

[Oh Haha]

The company that is going to manufacture these or components of these are next door to my office. They just bought an empty plant up the road and plan to hire 500 people over the next 5 years. They also supply parts to Fisker.

[David]

Batteries will get cheaper in the next few years and they're not worthless once they can only hold 70-80% of their original charge they just become too heavy for a vehicle. They can still be used to store power in a stationary environment so the batteries can be placed in large groups to help smooth wind or solar power that's a bit unpredictable.

The big plus is they're charged from hydrocarbons that are almost 100% locally produced so the money's not going to sponsor mideast terrorists.

[Aurel]

Originally Posted by Oh Haha

The company that is going to manufacture these or components of these are next door to my office. They just bought an empty plant up the road and plan to hire 500 people over the next 5 years. They also supply parts to Fisker.

Are you talking about A123?
They just had a bit of trouble recently:

A123 Recalling $55M In EV Batteries Made In Livonia « CBS Detroit


GM lab explosion update: A123 battery reportedly responsible, five people hurt

[RWebb]

how long do the batteries really last?

is it 10 years?

or 20?

[Hugh R]

My Camry hybrid battery comes with a 160,000 km or 8 year warranty, don't know if its pro-rated or not (I'm guessing yes), cost is apparently around $3,000.

[Oh Haha]

Aurel--I was referring to MagnaECar.

They also make back cameras and other parts for the car companies. Porsche is a customer.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by Hugh R

My Camry hybrid battery comes with a 160,000 km or 8 year warranty, don't know if its pro-rated or not (I'm guessing yes), cost is apparently around $3,000.

A hybrid's battery should have less capacity and be significantly cheaper than a battery for an electric car. I imagine there's some value in the old battery, so that probably factors into the price, Hugh.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

you've been on the crack rock again haven't you?

lol

[island911]

Originally Posted by porsche4life

You've been on the crack rock again haven't you?

Yeah, you would be too young to get the joke. --Radio Shack was once known for giving away free flashlights. (batteries not included)

[J P Stein]

And where do the "rare earth" minerals for these batteries come from?

Sister Mary Elephant would whack my knuckles for ending that sentence with a preposition.

China's Rare Earth Metals Monopoly Needn't Put An Electronics Stranglehold On America - Forbes

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by David

Batteries will get cheaper in the next few years and they're not worthless once they can only hold 70-80% of their original charge they just become too heavy for a vehicle. They can still be used to store power in a stationary environment so the batteries can be placed in large groups to help smooth wind or solar power that's a bit unpredictable.

The big plus is they're charged from hydrocarbons that are almost 100% locally produced so the money's not going to sponsor mideast terrorists.

The only way batteries are going to get cheaper is if the gubmint subsidizes them even more than they aready do.
That doesn't make them cheaper. It makes them more expensive, the only difference EVERYONE ends up paying for someone else's POS (well at least everyone of us that actually pays taxes).

Next point, where zackly do those "local" electrons come from?
What form of energy is used to generate that spark-tricity?

The joke in charge is doing everything he can to eliminate the US coal industry.
The tree-huggers and scady-tards won't let a new nuke plant get built cause we might have a 9.0 quake with a 100 foot high wall of water hit Nebraska.

Wind and solar are total jokes and cost AT LEAST 4 times as much as conventional generating kwh's.
Hydro-electric is very efficient (after you spend billions on the dam and flood the valley) but lots of places (like So cal and most of tejas) don't have that much running water.
geothermal is an even bigger joke that is only good for shuffling public money into private pockets due to the small scale. Same with bio, can't make enough of it cheap enough to even be a drop in the bucket.

That leaves oil and natural gas. The most logical fuel source we have and we have lots. Over 100 years of untappen natural gas in the US with almost double that amount in unproven (but well known) sources.

Sorry in advance for the bubble-bursting but reality sux sometimes.

[MarkRobinson]

Originally Posted by porwolf

Exactly why these battery electric or big battery hybrids don't make sense, environmentally and otherwise. Besides the whole electrical charging situation has not been worked out yet, if it ever will. Electric energy is not free either and produced largely by burning hydrocarbons. Then about 30% is lost in the power transmission lines. Especially if they are long distance.

A better solution would be diesel-electric cars. A small battery would store peak power and braking energy. Electric motors are made for high torque at any speed, especially at low RPM's. And they don't need transmissions. The diesel engine would charge the battery at constant speed, in it's most efficient and least polluting mode of operation. A standard tank can be charged in minutes and would hold plenty of fuel. Diesel fuel supply systems are in place and proven.

I like this idea the best too: Just like TopGear's Eagle I Thrust, aka Geoff

[gtc]

The engine in my 911 easily accounts for a third of the car's value. And it needs to be rebuilt/replaced at some point in the car's life (like now, actually).

It's a scam!

[Superman]

40 MB hard drives used to cost $1000. Today, 16 GB flash drives are 1/20th that cost and fit on your keychain.

I continue to expect that ultimately, battery technology will allow for the elimination of fossil-fueled passenger cars.