Why I Effing Hate Car Salesmen & Dealerships

[onewhippedpuppy]

I'm looking for a new F150 Supercrew 4x4 for my wife, it is proving to be an incredibly frustrating experience. I have the exact truck spec'd out that I want including every option package and with the option of two different colors. I have sent this exact truck configuration to every Ford dealership in the region, simply requesting that they quote me their best price including rebates. Nearly every dealership is jerking me around, giving me the line of "come see us, we'll beat any other price". Does the average new car buyer just visit the nearest dealer and pay what they offer as the "best price in town"? I have cash and I want to buy a truck, so give me a price dammit! I'm pissed off enough that I'm going to look at a Tundra today, even though I think I like the Ford better.

There's also the story of my visit to a dealership last week with two stock numbers from their website in hand. The 19 year old salesman on his second day at work basically sent me out to scour their lot for the truck I was looking for, was shocked when I found it (5 min), ran the truck that I was interested in into another new truck when moving it, had no idea what an Ecoboost was, and didn't seem to comprehend anything that I was telling him. I then talked to the sales manager, who after hearing that I wasn't buying a truck that night subsequently refused to give me a price and told me to come back when I was serious.

[kaisen]

Exactly why buying from a best-price no-haggle dealership can be a better experience for everyone involved.

Good luck Matt!

[id10t]

If you have AAA, give them a call. They have agreements with dealerships in every state, fixed price. We bought our Altima that way, and the sales guy was impressed that we got the price we did. A friend recently bought a Subie Forrester, did the same thing, got it for a few hundred dollars over true dealer cost.

[Noah930]

I email the dealership and tell them what price I'm willing to pay. I've got the dealer invoice info in hand, so I have an idea (excepting holdbacks) what they're paying for the vehicle. I cut them a few percentage points for their profit, and I give them my offer.

Either they tell me they can't meet/beat it (fair enough), or they give me a counter-offer. I then take the price they give and email the next dealership with that, asking if they can beat it. Go in succession and do it to all the local dealerships and see what happens. Easy for me to do in the comfort of my own home. And it shouldn't take the guy/gal more than a few minutes of his/her time.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Exactly why buying from a best-price no-haggle dealership can be a better experience for everyone involved.

Good luck Matt!

I'm yet to find a Ford dealer with that policy. They seem firmly entrenched in the "slimy car salesman" mode of operations.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Noah930

I email the dealership and tell them what price I'm willing to pay. I've got the dealer invoice info in hand, so I have an idea (excepting holdbacks) what they're paying for the vehicle. I cut them a few percentage points for their profit, and I give them my offer.

Either they tell me they can't meet/beat it (fair enough), or they give me a counter-offer. I then take the price they give and email the next dealership with that, asking if they can beat it. Go in succession and do it to all the local dealerships and see what happens. Easy for me to do in the comfort of my own home. And it shouldn't take the guy/gal more than a few minutes of his/her time.

Exactly what I'm trying to do, except they won't give me a counter. It's always the line of "come on in, we'll give you the best price in the world".

[Noah930]

I think the internet salespeople have a different pay system than the on-the-lot salesmen. So there's much less sliminess involved when I've bought cars with the method listed above. I've tried to avoid the on-the-lot sales staff.

But it sounds like you're doing the same thing.

[porsche4life]

Branch out a bit and try the small town dealerships? They tend to be a little less slimy. I know the Ford dealer here isn't too bad.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Exactly what I'm trying to do, except they won't give me a counter. It's always the line of "come on in, we'll give you the best price in the world".

Then I'd tell them to go pound sand.

Don't waste my time. Here's what I want. Here's what I want to pay. You in or out?

Now, if someone were to really agree to the amount I offered, I'd go through with the purchase without dicking around with all the other dealers. I figure that's only fair to them, too. (Though arguably the word fairness has no place amongst car dealerships.)

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by kaisen

Exactly why buying from a best-price no-haggle dealership can be a better experience for everyone involved.

Good luck Matt!

I guess what he might be asking is where does he find that dealer and how does he know it's the best price? From what I've read here, Costco might be reliable enough to give the best deal.

The are so many factors that come into play buying a car that price is not all that important unless you are writing a check. At a dealer, that puts you at a disadvantage.

As a one time car sales person, I can say that unit count is one thing and margin is another. My manager would play along with anyone to a certain point before shutting down and saying that's the final offer. He knew all the tricks customers thought they knew.

If someone wanted to buy a car for cash at invoice, he'd just look intently at the door to the fleet sales office. If they didn't get it, no problem. Meanwhile, his bonuses weren't suffering.

19 YO'ds should not be selling cars and trucks unless they are really sharp and have a lot of maturity.

[docrodg]

That, and a good history with Saturn was why we bought our '06. Went in, told them what I wanted and they punched it up, gave me a price, and told me to be there in two days with the paperwork and it would be ready. When GM sold them off everyone wanted the dealers because of their reputation. I had an early 90's that I drove over 350K miles and never did a thing to except brakes and occasional oil changes, and one EGR valve. THe no-haggle, customer service is important attitude is rare at most dealerships.

[dan88911]

Yeah, I have been there as well the last few purchases with car dealers I took my deal to the fleet manager.

[vash]

i'm lucky. living in the Bay area, i cant swing a dead cat by the tail and not hit a dealership selling the car of my choice.

i've bought a couple of new cars. i always used the companies main website to send out an email to the local shops. i lead off saying i hate the dealership experience and will walk out the door if: list your peeves here.

i ask for a quote and tell them i am serious..if they have what i want, at the my price, and pending test drive..the deal is done.

it has worked both times!! i get a "Best" price, that has both been better than i was going to go..i call and tell them i am on my way. done.

now i dont understand why it takes so many hours to buy one..they should serve food.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Exactly what I'm trying to do, except they won't give me a counter. It's always the line of "come on in, we'll give you the best price in the world".

And for a reason. Most money made on a sale is not dependent on the selling price. They need to get you in the F & I office, serve you some coffee, turn the lights down and rape you.

[kaisen]

Matt,

How many local or near-local Ford dealers have a truck in stock that is acceptably equipped?

How many of those have you visited in person?

E

[Z-man]

This weekend, I got a flyer about some big car sale at the local Mitsubishi dealership. Turns out it was a 'pre-auction' used-car bank sale. The sales guy (not from the Mitsu dealership) explained how it works -- before going to auction, the bank tries to sell the car to the public. Thus, the extra price an auction and then dealership that is built into the final sale price of a car is allegedly removed.

Blah blah blah - whatever -- I play along. We go outside to look at some of the cars. I look at some of the cars and spot a 2005 Acura TSX that looks like it was "ridden hard and put away wet." So I inquire about it. He goes inside to check the numbers, while I whip out my smartphone and look up the car on Kelly Blue Book. In excellent condition, that car is worth $15k, and in my estimation, that car was probably in 'fair' condition, worth $10-12k. Salesman comes back with "We can sell you that car for $17k." I said, "Do you trust Kelly Blue book? They say that car's worth only $12k." He argues with me about how that one has Navi in it, and I counter with "Navi isn't worth $5k." He says we are too far apart, and I agree, and get my $5 Walmart gift car for my time.

So, if you are looking for a GREAT deal on a 2005 Acura TSX, lemme know. I can get it for you for a mere $20K, and you'd be STEALING it from me!

-Z-man.

[944Larry]

Matt, if you want to raise an army to attack all these dealerships, sign me up as a Sergeant.
What I hate is when you're looking for a used car (been looking for a Boxster lately myself) and they don't post a price but you call and they say "come on in and we'll fix you up". I agree with you, what is it about these people that they have to see you. I'm not that pretty. Just tell me the price. I may or may not be interested. It'll save us both time.

[EarlyPorsche]

Thats annoying. But you're not being the typical "difficult buyer" to them are you? I mean if you have invoice information then you don't need 300 offers. You can just go into one dealership, tell them what a new F150 is worth to you, and then see what they say. A couple hundred here or there and you will be out the door and you won't have to run around. The email game is probably played a good amount with them so they probably don't treat you like they should (because you are serious and lots of internet buyers are probably just thinking of purchasing). I would hate not to take your side but you probably have to show a committed offer instead of just asking what their best discounted price is. So I guess I am curious, what is sticker, invoice, and what are you willing to pay?

[Christien]

Originally Posted by Noah930

Now, if someone were to really agree to the amount I offered, I'd go through with the purchase without dicking around with all the other dealers. I figure that's only fair to them, too.

And there's the problem. Most other people wouldn't, which is why most dealers won't give you their best offer right up front. They want to meet you in person to feel out if you're actually serious about writing a cheque for the full amount, right then and there. Maybe you're playing honest with them, but bear in mind that at least 90% of the customers that the salesman deals with in a month will not buy anything. And many of them make BS claims about either not needing financing, or their credit situation if they do. The car buying customer is one of the most educated (in terms of the product) yet at the same time one of the most unreasonable and demanding of all. So they do have a right to be cautious with their offers.

That said, buying a new car is a fool's game, IMO. Buy 2-3 years old, 30-40k on the clock. That's usually the sweet spot between condition and depreciation.

When I was involved in the dealership, what I wanted to do was post a breakdown of each car's price in the window, with a no-haggle policy. Here's what we paid for it (show the invoice), here's what we put into it for reconditioning (repairs, cleaning), here's our lot pack (overhead), here's our salesman's commission, here's our dealer profit. So you'd see a car that cost 15 at auction, 1000 recon, 1000 lot pack, 300 commission, 1500 dealer profit, total sale price 18800. My partner disagreed.

[BE911SC]

Originally Posted by Zeke

And for a reason. Most money made on a sale is not dependent on the selling price. They need to get you in the F & I office, serve you some coffee, turn the lights down and rape you.

Just say no. I've had those guys so pissed at me for saying no to the extended warranty (for an extra 1500 bucks), no to the Scotch Guard treatment (for an extra $500), no, no, no. Just sell me the car for the agreed-on price and I'll write the check for that number. I even had the paperwork woman snap at me because the agreed price, 22K, came out on the paperwork as 22,000.01. She said "it's a computer thing." I said, "Great, you got a penny dish here on the desk because my check is going to say 22,000.00." By the time we were done she practically threw the keys in my face. Mission Accomplished. Oh, and I had made them put in writing that the optional wheels, not on the car, would be installed free of charge (as verbally agreed) and that the several small paint blemishes would be fixed free of charge (as verbally agreed). She didn't want to put those items in writing because it was "busy today" so I said, "Fine, no deal." All the while being as polite as possible and smiling. I hate the bastards too but you're on their turf. Either play hardball and stand your ground or pay their price. It does feel good to drive away with the deal you pressed for.