How to hande a counter offer?

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Mothy

As an employer, if one of my team came to me and said he had been approached by xxx offering 18% more to go work for them, I'd look into it and review the rates we pay compared to the market etc. If it was a valuable member, I'd do what I could to keep them. Happy employees don't often go looking.

However, if they did it off their own bat, then I'd wish them well and send them on their way. Chances are that the reason they were not happy was not the pay level - it just made it more bearable.

But I'm not unhappy there, I have asked for raises before and I always bring in more revenue each year than I did in the previous one. Still, my income is flat at best, W2'ed a little less last year than in 2010. They simply will not pay more unless threatened with someone leaving. As I said, this recruiter also has a position with a competitor, one that pays considerably more than I'm making now. I know we've hired others away from this competitor who were making far less, so I'm skeptical. But I'm really getting the feeling that, for the amount of revenue I handle, my pay is about 50% too low. And even if it's not, I need to be somewhere with a realistic chance of making more each year when I bring in more each year.

The current "incentive" is that we get a larger % of revenue cut after we've met our goal for the year. But only a small handful of people do that and that's usually in Nov. or Dec., so it's no incentive at all until you already know you're gonna make it.

[rusnak]

Let them know what you want. You'll have to decide how to let them know you might be getting another offer, and that it may or may not be a sound offer, but they are not the only place that will employ you. Point out your loyalty to the company, history, and experience as a way to explain to them your worth.

[Rick Lee]

Well, it's kind of dicey to play this game without a firm offer in hand and once that happens, the clock is ticking and everyone is playing for keeps. Today's interview is probably the first of several and I'm not even sure it's a line of work I'm interested in. But then I wouldn't mind getting out my comfort zone again and having some serious earning opportunity. Not working from home would be tough, though it's not a long commute to this new place.

The sad thing, and it'd be very hard to get these words out of my mouth, is that I'm actually worth more to my company for always being just under 100% of goal, which I am. I'm not trying to spin underperformance, but it's just a fact that no account manager here has two great consecutive years. The goals and commission structure make that impossible. If someone finishes at 140% of goal, they'll either have a terrible next year (because they'll have to do that plus 15-18% just to get to 100% again - i.e. lower pay, more work), or they'll take their plaque, go to President's Club and then find a better job while they still have a great track record to show off to other prospective employers.

Replacing such a person takes a solid year IF they hire the right person right away. I think senior mgt. knows it's a good gig to work from home, see your boss maybe twice a year, make your own schedule and make a decent living. That's a tough gig to replace in this economy. The reward for finishing just under 100% of goal is having pretty steady goals year after year, a pretty steady paycheck and a secure job. I don't see anyone currently at the company changing that.

[billwagnon]

By the time I'm looking for a new job, a counter offer doesn't even matter.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by billwagnon

By the time I'm looking for a new job, a counter offer doesn't even matter.

I should add that I'm only looking for a job because this one could go away at any time and it's best to look for a job when you don't really need to. I have a few friends who've been unemployed or underemployed for several years. The gaps in their resumes and atrophying job skills make them very difficult to re-employ.

[biosurfer1]

Is there any chance they would hear your concerns about the structure they have? It seems like if you see the problems with "last year +15-18%" then other people probably have also. Maybe something could be worked out. I can't imagine management doesn't known there is a problem (though we are talking about management) but maybe they don't know how bad it really is.

[Rick Lee]

Sure, I can bring that up and it might be discussed and hemmed and hawed over for another nine mos. before changing. The SVP of sales (my boss's boss) spent six figures last year on a consultant to revamp our comp structure and goals, and - surprise - they kept things the same (though didn't reveal this until end of Q1 2011), raised the goals and the only new incentives offered come at the end of the year for those who exceed their goal for the year before 12/31. No one gets there before Nov. or Dec. So no one gets a dime more in commissions before then and very few get there at all, maybe 10% of the sales force.

I should have brought this up when my boss was with me in LA two weeks ago, but I had nothing to use as leverage at that time. I still don't, but suspect I may soon.

[Rick Lee]

Ok, just got back from the first interview and was pretty much told I'd get asked back for the second one if I wanted. However, there will be no offer to elicit a counter out of my boss. This new place is mostly commission, which is fine and lucrative. But there's probably a difficult ramp-up period and I don't think I'm in a position to go through something like that again without feeling the fire in my belly, which I do not. I'd have to pass the Series 7 and 66 before they could pay me a dime and the good part is that I could do that while still at my current job and then give my two weeks notice once I'm certified. Still, not really feeling it.

[biosurfer1]

Never hurts to listen what they have to say...good luck with the search if it continues

[aigel]

Sounds like the recruiter is a sleaze - how can he promise 40% base increase and then when you get there they tell you that they can't make an offer?

At any rate, I'd look at your motivation getting started: get your boss to counter. All you need is a job that's close enough where you don't get hosed when he calls your bluff.

I sure sometimes wonder how you do this stuff without worrying that someone from your work finds you on here?

G

[Rick Lee]

I'm not doing anything remotely unethical by asking the Pelican brain trust. Honestly, if my boss read this, it'd probably be a good thing, though I won't be forwarding him the link. My boss is not the paranoid type and he's certainly not a car bbs guy. Anyone else in the company, especially if they're on the sales side, would see this and agree with me. I've never heard another account manager say they liked our structure. But it's the best job a lot of us have. Many of us discuss this kind of stuff all the time on our own company instant messaging. (How was your March? Is the boss in the office today? How was your review? How's your pipeline? Did he yell at you over this or that?) I haven't written too much I'd be afraid to say to anyone in person. And I firmly believe I learn more from my co-workers than from mgt.

As I got out of the interview today, there was an email from the recruiter asking me how it went and reminding me to write a thank you note to the interviewer. Sheesh. I left him a vm about an hour later and he didn't call back. I'd kind of like to stay on his good side and not let him think I'm a tire kicker, as he could find some good leads for me and I would seriously consider leaving for the right gig. I just need a lot more selling on this one before I think it's worth leaving what I have behind.

[SeanPizzle]

I have been in IT sales for 17 years. The first 14 were with manufacturers. I know of what you speak when you have to perform 20 to 30 percent more each year to make the same W2. After year 3, you have to sell twice as much as year one to make the same amount, the last straw for me was working for a company that gave us new quotas every quarter. There was no incentive to overachieve at all, because you would be rewarded with a bigger quota the next quarter. If you are happy making your on target earnings, then just hang out and keep your head down. I don't know what business you are in, Rick, but I went to a smaller systems integrator 3 years ago on 100 percent commission with a known percentage of profit split every year. Last year I made 250% or my 2009 earnings. Risk/Reward.

[Rick Lee]

I would so love for my job to be 100% commission, but the powers that be care far more about controlling everyone than letting them all do their own thing. I'm in the PR/news distribution biz, kind of a cottage industry and not many folks outside the biz have ever heard of it, though plenty of our clients' work has been posted here by others, usually in PARF.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by SeanPizzle

If you are happy making your on target earnings, then just hang out and keep your head down.

That's what I do, but only because I haven't found a better gig yet. I keep applying jobs at the local Fender HQ, but nothing has come up for which I'm truly qualified on paper. I don't know if I could ever work another non-hobby job.

[SeanPizzle]

I have posted before, but I specifically requested 100 percent commission with my current gig. If I want to break my back, I will see tangible rewards. If I want to coast and enjoy my family, I make less. It's a good thing. My house is paid for and my daughters college is paid for and I am 44. For me, I want to pursue my bliss and not necessarily more money (which the gov takes half of my incremental earnings). As long as can save for retirement and watch my daughter grow up, I won't ever take another type of job (ok, never is a long time).

[Rick Lee]

100% commission or 1099 will never ever happen at this job. My boss joked about it once, but he's powerless in that regard. Unthinkable. I'd love it, but I'm better off going elsewhere for that or starting something on the side, which I'd also love to do, but have no ideas and the secret wouldn't last long in this small industry.

[rusnak]

I didn't like my job, so I bought out my boss, and I run the show. I now run several companies and work my ass off. A rational person explores options but the rare person actually takes action.

[Rick Lee]

Well, if you have a spare $250 million to lend me, I could go that route too.

[rusnak]

If you want to do it, then you'll find a way, trust me.

[RWebb]

is it not obvious that the critical issue here is the parking discipline at the new place?