Teaching your children to be respectful of others while also standing up for themselves is a lesson that will benefit them well beyond their playground days. If you are not willing to stand up for yourself then others will take advantage and walk all over you, be it on the playground or in your professional life.

I tell my kids that they I will NEVER tolerate them being rude to or picking on other kids, and I've severely corrected my son for doing just that. But I also tell them that if they are legitimately being picked on or bullied that they have my permission and support to defend themselves. Fortunately this hasn't been an issue at school, but while out of town my son was picked on at the park by a kid substantially older and bigger than him. After the bigger kid pushed my son multiple times, my son calmly punched the other kid in the stomach. The other kid left and my son went back to playing, I saw that as a totally reasonable response.

I would warn those on this board to think seriously first before giving advice on this subject; Schools have changed a lot in even the last 10 years, especially with regards to physical-contact policies and 'no-tolerance' rules.

While it maybe used to be OK to 'hit back' as long as you weren't the one who started it, in many cases this is not true now. No 'fighting back' or even defending one's self can be allowed if it means doing anything toward the other student- literally about the only thing you could do safely as a student in the event of a physical interaction with a bully is to cover yourself and crouch in a ball like a sissy. Any pushing back/kick in the nuts, even if done in defense and as a secondary action can be considered a punishable offense.

I'm rather young compared to many on this board (well, Sid could chime in far better than I..) but I believe I went to school at a place that was on the hard end of 'strict' with their no-tolerance rules. Oddly enough it only started around the late 90's or so I think, so I didn't deal with this long.

I do remember on several occasions hearing about two students who got into a fight, usually one punk kid- that same punk who had been causing trouble for our class since the 2nd grade, you know who they are- and one normal, nice, straight-A student that had never been in detention before... with the outcome being that both students were suspended without question.

I can actually think of 3 events in my high school career like this where it was clearly a bully-style incident that finally challenged the kid being bullied enough to hit back, and this resulted in both students being expelled, or in one instance that I can remember, more punishment for the 'good' student. A friend of mine got pissed at one dumba$$ under-achiever goofing off and ruining his and other's lunch on several occasions and hockey-checked the bully's ass into a full-length wall mirror. Kid had it coming 100x over and had been pushing my buddy first. He got a push back that was a little harder than he ever expected, wound up spilling a bit of blood. My buddy was expelled for the rest of the year. Put him seriously behind, although managed to make it up by doing a lot of summer school hours and managed to graduate on time.



Anyways, I could talk at length about this... but again.. it's a different world out there now. I wouldn't lay a finger on anyone in the latter part of my highschool days regardless of how much they needed an ass whooping, because one quick shot on someone could easily had ruined my college aspirations for good.

I was one of those elementary kids always in schoolyard squabbles, got roughed up a lot but fought back a lot. In the 9th grade I got into a big fight with a bully in gym class, finally gave the kid some of his own sh#t, and got a serious sit down with the coach, who had known me all my life- he kept the deal quiet, but it was clear that the one fight could have easily ended my freshman year early if it had come to surface under our new principle's eyes.

You don't even need to beat a bully up to stop them. You just need to be able to defend yourself, block the punches and stand your ground. The bully soon starts to look like a fool and doesn't bother you again. Pretty straight forward. Of course nothing wrong with having a go back if it's appropriate.

Yet the kids, and the dynamics that flow between them, have not changed. I will never advocate Zack beating on anyone who did not instigate the conflict. But our situation is different and I failed in my initial post to indicate such.

My son plays teams sports...mainly baseball. This sport, like football and basketball, are dominated by kids who started puberty in the 4th grade. He is playing freshman baseball on his high school team and is the only boy on the team who has not gotten to second base (coped a feel) with a girl. Roughly 1/4 of the boys on his FRESHMAN team have a "home run" and another 1/4 will do so this year. Scary. He is truly a boy among men...literally...as a high school freshman. There are 5 boys on his 16 man freshman team who are over 6' tall and 180 lbs.

Not standing up for yourself at this junction will follow you for life...in the minds of the boys who will eventually be washing his car and the boys who might become his supervisor. Mainly in his own mind. Running away to avoid conflict is not an answer. Nobody likes a snitch. This is the way of life. Navigate the waters.

Yes, as long as there can be a settled ground between 'being a snitch' and 'loosing your college scholarship after being expelled from the 11th grade after standing up a little-too-aggressively to a deserving bully and being completely f*%#ed-up-the-a$# by some idiotic school executive board and an insane no-tolerance-policy'

Sad if true, that policy hurts both kids.

Bullying happens all through life, not just on the playground. Learning to shut down a bully is a valuable life skill.

And what of the bully who is also denied a valuable learning experience; A bloody nose can be powerful medicine to cure bad behavior.


Both kids are denied learning valuable skills that help them navigate adult life.

I haven't read the other replys but here in New Zealand we don't lead such a sheltered life as those who grow up in Canada and the US. We have been fighting in the playground since the age of five. All good healthy stuff.

The other kids used to tease me about the way I talked, but I was kind of like the mouse that roared and used to beat the sh it out of the other kids who gave me a hard time. This policy has worked out quite well as as life plan and I thoroughly recommend it as fun past time/hobby.

Good luck with that zero tolerance bs. I'd have half of my family's next generation riding the short bus to summer school if that were the case. On the other hand, they'd definitely be the dumber half, so....hmm.

It should be noted that I am in no way standing behind such 'policies', but, as someone young enough to have seen them applied firsthand, I thought it would be important to mention.

It was (is), obviously, BS. We as students knew this. Our parents knew this. 90% of faculty and staff knew this.

But we didn't create the policies. The boards created the policies, and the reasons for such changes in school discipline is possibly outside the scope of this thread.

Give your child a cell phone. If the school won't protect him, tell him to call 911.

I like this one. However when I was younger there were no cell phones but I think that the bully tries to get you going by picking on u. I used to say nothing and walk away. Now I am older I take it more personally but really don't get involved but just stand and stare.

Karate, plus a few other MMA skills, weight training and lots of physical activities.
My 10yr/old has "pipes" and presence, bullies don't bother him or his friends any more.

Kids who are taught to run and tell for every little thing learn to be subordinate, and will be targets their whole life. (Or possibly their emotions will erupt in a fit of gunfire.)

If you fail to back your kid now, why would he expect you to back him later in life?


Your kid was right. Now you need to back him up, and you need to back the school down.

One possible track you can take is: Make this their fault and their problem. Find out exactly what their policy is and use it against them. Were they properly trained to identify bullying? Were there proper numbers of employees supervising when this happened? Insist that he reacted appropriately given their lack of oversight and lack of enforcement of their alleged "zero tolerance policy". Tell them you need to see in writing what their corrective action will be toward their system failure - so that you can be assured your son will not be in further danger due to their negligence. Let them know that self defense is not a crime, but that assault IS. Etc.

An ass kicking is all bullies really understand.

Even in the stupid, PC, nutless, gutless world of education, bullies need this lesson. In fact many a school administrator is nothing but an arrogant bully.

Tell the kid, "do what you have to. I have your back".

The uproar will die down eventually and EVERYONE will have learned a valuable lesson.

Back your kid.

Bullies stop picking on kids who push back. Much more effective than telling a teacher.

I recommend learning judo at a young age. No need for any striking and once you have them in control you can make them say, "Uncle Louie" till the cows come home with just a little more pressure or torque. You can hold and control them till the teacher comes, all the while having them say whatever you want.

A 80-90 lb person can dislocate a shoulder of the perp, even an adult, pretty easily.

If a school expelled my kid for defending himself against a bully, I would throw a BLUE GOOSE FIT. The Principal and school board members would be part of the "dialogue."

A few years back we go to this restaurant that has an acre of sand out back.

The place was meant to mimic an island beachfront bar/restaurant.

We liked to go there cause the adults could hang out and the kids would play on the "beach" and not bother us.

Think my daughter was 8-9 at the time. She was enrolled in Martial Arts because I wanted to make sure she could always defend herself.

So a bunch of us are sitting having drinks and BS'ng when my daughter comes over to complain about some older boys who were bothering them, knocking down their sand castles and being plain rude.

Told her to stand her ground and tell them to stop.

A little later one of the guys at our table taps me and says he thinks we have a problem.

I look over and see this bigger boy staring down at my daughter. He's got a good 6 inches and 30 pounds on her.

Arden stands up and they exchange a few words.

The boy reaches out to push her.

She grabs him by his arms, swings him around and throws him to the ground.

Then she does the most awesome WWF knee drop into his chest.

She gets up and the boy rolls over and starts to crawl away so she kicks him in the ass a few times to help him out.

I call her over and she says "am I in trouble?"

Said "no baby, you are not, but one kick in the ass would have been enough, go play"

The big kid and his friends moved to the other side of the sand pit.

My advice...Talk to your son's teacher. Explain to the teacher what is happening. Likely the teacher will want to step up. I suspect the teacher will get a yard duty on the case and keep a special eye out for the offender. When the offender is caught, he/she will be punished, your kid will not have any blame.

Agreed....Thats why I like BJJ. With chocks and submissions you really dont need a lot of striking, but if your really in a tough one you can use your grappling skills to gain position like a top mount for "ground and pound". :D