Missing In Action....1942
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336767559.jpg


Frozen in the sands of time: Eerie Second World War RAF fighter plane discovered in the Sahara... 70 years after it crashed in the desert

Read more: Crashed plane of Second World War pilot Dennis Copping discovered in the Sahara desert | Mail Online

Pretty amazing! I hope it's restored. Very cool looking photo all by itself.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...58_470x423.jpg

It looks like things came out of the engine to me.

Great images in that link, thanks for posting varmit.

Now that's a picture that tells a story without needing words.

Too bad every Tom, Dick and Abdul are stripping it and selling the parts for scrap.....

Those holes are behind the cockpit. Pretty hard for the engine to do that.

In a quick search, it looks like the plane will be salvaged. The plane had previous damage & the pilot was just ferrying it for repair.

One of the landing grounds involved was LG09 - south of El Alamein. My father flew out of there on bombing runs with the RAF 37 Sqdn around the time of the crash.

Ian

Right, I see it now - got turned around.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/...41_964x717.jpg

Gotta wonder if that was part of the previous damage or not.

Could have been pretty serious ground fire which went right through the craft. Could have been air to air fire too, it will be interesting to find out what the experts determine as the cause.

Its being picked up and returned to England where it will be in the Imperial War Museum... its the ONLY Africa based Kittyhawk left in the world.

Hopefully they will display it as is in a setting that represents its current "as found" condition and surroundings. Arrested decay. 70 years sitting undiscovered in the desert is amazing. Losing your bearings, crashing in the world true middle of nowhere and trying to walk out goes down on the list of suck.

The P-40 was an all metal fighter. I wonder why the ailerons and rudder just have the interior supports left?

I think they were fabric covered control surfaces, not metal.

A Curtiss thing, but other's did it too.

That was my first guess but every P-40 searchI did, says 'all metal'....

See the 4th post (#723) here: P-40 from Sahara - Page 25 - Key Publishing Ltd Aviation Forums It is the memoir of the pilot of the other plane.

Ian

For a taste of what is was like . . . here is an article my father wrote about LG 09. I just discovered it tonight.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336781800.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336781829.jpg

Ian

Looks like the desert has preserved it fairly well, you can still make out some of the markings...

Ian,

Thanks for posting - any pictures..?

No, unfortunately. He didn't take any. I guess 21 year old farm boys couldn't afford the luxury of a camera. But here are his log entries for the end of June - the same time-frame as the P40 crash. The bad guys were advancing.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336784016.jpg

Ian

All the control surfaces on the P-40 were fabric covered (as were several other fighters and bombers at the time).

control surfaces were fabric covered

Not sure why, but the photos are very compelling. Beautiful.

even the mustang has fabric covered control surfaces. it is still a "all metal" aircraft,

A nice and dry environment for preserving things.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Z8dBRjEjkXQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Great story.

What's the reasoning behind fabric covered surfaces? Weight? Durability against battle damage?

From a different news article:
Since the discovery, the wreck has been seriously vandalized - a travesty the whole aviation world seems unable to stop. The perspex has been smashed out, bullet holes appear in the cowling and other forms of damage and theft seem to be underway.

Original Kittyhawk HS-B Discovered > Vintage Wings of Canada

Bedouins are the scavengers of the Desert. They could give a crap about an Aircraft's history....all they see is scrap value.

http://www.vintagewings.ca/Portals/0...red/HS-B33.jpg

In the "old days" the entire airplane was covered in fabric (usually Grade A cotten, now lightweight Dacron, like sail material), then a "Dope" was brushed or sprayed on and that both protected and covered the fabric. A "fabric job" was usually done every 3-5 years. Labor was cheap and plentyful then.

Then came large quanities of aluminum and they started making big bits out of it. Finally entire airplanes were made out of metal but they kept the fabric covered control surfaces due to the weight (they are usually at the far end, or outer reaches of the airplane) that was reduced and continued this until after the war then it was slowly replaced by all metal airplanes.

Now its pretty much an art form and while people like Tim Hancock and myself still do work in "dope and fabric," but its a dying art. My local FAA office has been hounding me for several years now to get my inspectors ticket renewed again as they have almost no one around here that knows how to work with dope and fabric, and very, very few of their people have any hands on time in this.

put me in the boat with you 2. I always enjoyed doing it, except for the "rib stitching".:(

I absolutely HATE rib stitching as well. Good thing is that the airplanes I have fussed with the last 30 years (Aeronca's) use PK screws and not rib-stitching. Sure helps!

Ummm... we just covered an Aeronca wing and there was plenty of rib stitching.

???

I have flown dozens of WWII aircraft and I do not recall anything that did not originally have cotton on all of the control surfaces.

Ag Cat used pop rivets, that works well (fast) too.

If it was a pre-war model, or WW2 model, then thats fine but if it was a post-war Aeronca we need to talk.

There are legal issues with using rib stitching on a metal rib designed for PK screws.

Prewar. I think it was a 65CA.
I didn't realize the later ones used no stitching.

Tell us more. I have two flights, one in a Mustang and one in a 17.

Cool stuff.

Then you guys should amend the 'ALL METAL' comments on Wikki. It's the reason I asked. The Canadien guys are the ones that brought up the skeletal portions of the P-40 and mentioned that they were fabric covered.

I simply looked at the pics, made a search and made a comment.

BTW, all you gals follwing this thread....I have a 12 inch all metal wanker....the last 3 inches is canvass and dope.....but it ain't on the 'net....so, it's a 'foot'.....

anybody else hear the story of the squadron of spitfire mark 2s found in burma?


these things are out there. here's a favorite from karelia.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1336872965.jpg

Control surfaces were fabric

German Fi156,BF109 And JU52 R.A.F. AOP4, PT26 and Supermarine Spitfire U.S.PT17,PT19 ,PT22,PT23,L3,L4,L5,L13,L19,BT13,BT15,T6, T28,T34,T50,C45 C47,P51,B17,B24,B29,PBY5,F4U5,HU16,C123 J4F-2,Sherman Tank, Half Track. And I have covered control surfaces on C47,Super 3, T6,FI156,PBY5A. Tomorrow morning @ 0830 I get to Fly a PT26 and a L5.