Work place fairness issue
 

For lack of a better word at this moment I used fairness. This involves my wife's workplace which is a small business (Vet Hosp) in Grass Valley, Ca. My wife has been employed there for about 13 years as a Vet Asst/animal tech, etc. In August she had a fall at home and broke her leg. She was out for six months since it was a nasty break requiring 6 hr surgery. She returned to work in Feb but was not given her nomad hours back. I don't know if this is actionable...a friend's husband says it is and he is somewhat experienced in this area. I have tried to contact the Ca Labor Board but was referred around in circles.

Anyone have a guess on this ? Yes, this is a small business with maybe 12 employees.

Has she asked the owner and/or manager why she didn't get her regular hours back?

If so, what did they say? Is this something they are working on or did they tell her to pound sand?

Was there any animosity involved in her relationship with manage/ownership?

Have you spoken to the manager/owner yourself to ask what is going on?

What did they tell her when the incident first happened wrt her position when she returned?

Was there any reassurance she would return at that time - or was everything just 'put on hold'?

Thanks for the reply.
She was told she'd get her hours back 'in a few months' when she came back. Now they just slough her off. The one Veterinarian is the owner and damn near everyone has issues with her...she's a spoiled little rich beotch, and nasty with everyone for no apparent reason. I want to speak to the owner myself but my wife is afraid she'll get fired if I push it...or even talk about it. Not sure they told her anything when she first went out, but when she came back it was said she'd get her hours back 'in a few months'. A new tech was hired to to fill in while she was gone and given my wife's hours/days. We really didn't know when my wife would come back but she stayed in touch while she was out.

find a new boss

Trust me..she would if she could... This is a small foothill community and jobs are scarce and low paying.

Six months is a long time to be out of the lineup. They have to be fair to the one that filled in for so long. May take some time for attrition to open up the hours for your wife. Probably not as long as in some shops, with the owner being as you describe.

All the best
Richard

I'm not an attorney and someone here who is can tell you more. However, you might want to look into workplace law and find out about leaves of absence. Some are covered better than others, such as maternity. But, they only give you 3 days for bereavement. Off the job injury may not be protected anywhere near what on-the-job injuries are.

The labor board is useless as it's been gutted.

If she had gotten injued a work it would be a different story. Or been gone due to active duty military,etc.

CA does have a lot of laws that are definitely more in the employees favor, but this one is pretty straight forwad I think. Even though it may not seem fair, especially after 13 years, they don't have to give her the same hours / days back unless she has that specified in an employment contract.

I would not talk to the owner as that woud probably create drama. Your wife's best bet is to just keep working and doing a good job, and through attrition get back to her normal schedule.

Bill

I agree.

Did she have insurance, etc.?

Six months is a long time.

There is a federal Family Medical Leave Act (FMLA) and states often have their own Family Leave Acts (FLA). In Washington State, some of that statutorily-mandated state leave runs AFTER all or part of the federal. In California, it is believable that federal and state law protects her.

And yet, even if it does, the next problem becomes enforcement. And then, after that (assuming it gets enforced), you may have an employer-employee relationship that is injured more than her leg.

I wonder if it might be good for her to explore the 'in a few months' remark. Perhaps find out what was meant by that, and what to expect.

What the heck are nomad hours?

With 12 employees, her absence caused a major disruption to everyone else there. I am sure a lot of reshuffling had to occur to keep everything covered and running smoothly.

Their workplace is too small for FMLA compliance and that is only for 12 weeks. I would suggest she approach the management with her requests. If management can't fulfill those requests, she will have to make the decision of whether it's worth staying on board. There are several good animal hospitals in the area.

Having been out of work for an injury in the past for a long time (4 months), HR laws are a mess in CA. The employee has hoops to jump through if they want to keep their job (FMLA paperwork, workmans' comp, etc.) and the employer has hoops to jump through to keep the employee since CA is a right-to-work state and can be terminated by either party at any time.

Your wife should call the CA Labor Board - they can answer these questions and do so for free (okay, time costs). They can explain the requirements for compliance with the law, what your employer is legally required to do and what the employee is legally required to do.

I can only speak from my past experience, but I filed the required FMLA paperwork and was able to get my exact position back - even though they hired a temp to fill my spot while I was out. Had I not filed the FMLA paperwork they could have laid me off once I hit the 30-day mark and paid me all past-due wages/PTO/Vacation, etc. and hire a full replacement.

Sorry to hear about the injury.

Brando hit the nail on the head, protection (as far as labor board is concerned) is provided through FMLA, so unless she filed FMLA paperwork, all bets are off. Further, with just 12 employees that might be below a requirement threshold anyway.

You asked about the concept of fairness. What's the concept of "normal" hours for any hourly employee at this firm? If the original offer of employment was for 40 hours a week, then you would seek clarification. If the original offer of employment is "we'll use you as much as we can", then the employer is doing what they can. Now if the vet is a nice person and they have the need, clearly they should bring hours back to "normal" (full time) as soon as they can. But if they hired a replacement while your wife was off, and this person was very capable, then by splitting the position between two they are being fairly generous, albeit at the downside to your wife.

Finally, if the replacement is at a lower wage rate, I don't think you would have a discrimination (If your wife is in a protected age class) claim, but worth noting.

No paperwork was filled out...we didn't know to do it. Most lay employees there work part time...about 30 hr per week and that's what my wife used to work. Now she only gets 24 and different days even though this boss gives extra hours to other people..likley smaller salary. I had told my wife that she is just SOL the other day and that the boss can do what ever she wants but a friend said no way... I think the issue is that this is a small business and that seems pretty much what the labor board told me, but they were not sure either. After that I got referred all over the place and got sick of the ordeal..

Thanks to all who replied.... +++

A misspelling. Be creative.

What does the wife do there that is unique or specific to her job? Any specialty animals? I'm looking for a way for her to take her experience outside the office.

Too small of a company, be glad that they could accommodate her back in.

Agree, life is not fair but even worse is a woman (good worker) working for a B-icht...

Out of 35 years in the government my wife worse time was the 3 years she work for womens :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Small community. Small job pool. Small minded owner. If you ratchet this up, you may win the battle but you will lose the war & your wife won't have a job eventually.

Ian

Yes, too small...that's what I figured and yes this woman is a 24carat b...h. One of these days fairly soon there will be a mass walk out because she verbally abuses darn near everyone there. She's on the hook for two loans totaling over a mil. She acts more like a 14yr old Emo Girl than an adult business woman. If she fails a lot of other people lose jobs and family incomes incl Vets who carry all the water for the place. Jobs are really tough here and salaries are minimum. There are tons of vacant store fronts.. Word is that this woman is seeing a psychiatrist but dunno just what. Also that she's been on psycho-active drugs in the past but just quit.

Ian, you're spot on too. We see that. In the end I may be willing to threaten to reveal some legal and ethical issues that I know about if she does not change her ways with everyone. Cal OSHA and the Board of Examiners would not be happy with her. Up here, and much of Ca. competent Vet Techs are very hard to find....most new ones just wanna pet puppies and are poorly trained if at all.

You're welcome Mark. I understand about the job situation in a small community but it still sounds like she would benefit from keeping her options open to work somewhere else, based on your (her) description of the boss. :eek:

In the meantime like many have already stated - maybe she is fortunate, under the circumstances, to still be employed with the prospect of getting back to her full time hours down the road.

I know it is said when you are unemployed - or in this case - not "as" employed - it's a great time to take a vacation. Maybe she could spend her extra time doing some of the stuff she always wanted to but couldn't because of work. Just one way to look at the other side of the coin.

I'm familiar with the vet practices around here and I see a fair amount of turnover - it really seems like personality drives one's employment tenure at one facility or another. I hope things work out one way or another......

And thanks for all the help she has given her ACD patients over the years! Woof!

SmileWavy

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1337985010.jpg

Thanks again Baz

Happy looking' dog, except maybe for the bandages. Jeannie is doing her hobbies ..mostly making jewelry. I wish she'd try to sell more. She's not really a self promoter though. She and I will hang in there and I'll do my part of listening every nite as she 'down loads'.

Several years back I did some relief vet work there but after having one's own gig most of my life it's hard to work for someone else. I never did work for this new owner and couldn't.

Mark - Jeannie should consider eBay for her jewelry. There's several folks I know who sell online that I have bought from in the past - especially when it benefited animal rescue. Even if selling is not her thing - someone else could help with that part. Lots of people these days sell crafts in many venues. Guess water will seek it's own level with that scenario but that's my opinion FWIW.

And I hear what you're sayin' about having your own gig. Nothing like being the captain of your ship, eh?

Best of luck to you both!!! :)

Hey mark, My wife is making jewelery also. She has found that she really enjoys having house parties to sell at friends houses. The friend will arraign the party for her friends at her house. My wife ( Margaret ) shows up early to set up her displays and let the hostess select a couple pieces for her efforts. Then they all enjoy the evening chatting, playing with the jewelry, etc. She will often sell a grand or more worth of pieces, and have a good time. This sometimes results in one or more of the attendees deciding to have a party for her circle of friends, and so no.
This way of marketing allows her to sell at wholesale +. Way less than retail at a store, and allows for personal contact with the shoppers which leads to custom orders.
A win win, and fun to boot.
Since your wife is not too tied up with her other job maybe she can give this plan a go.

Cheers Richard

Hi Richard,
I think she's considered that and does sell a bit to her work pals already. She's also in one jewelry store but with this economy things aren't moving that much. A lot of her stuff is higher end silver and semi precious stones. Sounds like your wife's is pretty high end too. I guess Jeannie would have to get her friends to invite other friends...maybe that's the way it works...

On that tangential note, the cottage industry will hopefully be a booming market.
Handcrafted is so much nicer.
A friend of a friend makes gift cards that are exquisite. The kind you see for $5-10 bucks in the shops. She looked around for selling venues and concluded there wasn't any. A shame she gave up.

One venue is Handcrafted Wood Jewelry on Etsy - Bracelets, earrings, necklaces, pendants. A lot of it is junk and some of it is production crap posing as handcrafted (just like the iphone;)).

But there is also Regretsy | Where DIY Meets WTF :D

Custom auto parts and designs is something that shows up a bit in the high end low-rider and stereo groups.
I've always wanted a maki-e Japanese lacquer dash, door handles, etc.(not on the pcar). I know, cheezy perhaps, but a potential venue for that product.

If there is demand, there is a market. Build it and they will come.

There is that too John, We also have a county web site here called nevadacountymakes.com. I've looked at that one and Esty and some of ebay. Jeannie's jewelry is higher end than the stuff I see online and those sites are flooded with 'hand made' (in China) stuff. Seems it would be hard to be noticed, but she has not tried it yet. Local fairs and such might work.

I can't see anything terribly unfair - she got displaced from one of the top spots due to absence. I do not think there is a law that requires you to have the same hours, unless you specifically signed up for a certain schedule in your job offer. I would just be happy the wife recovered, is reasonably healthy and able to work again. Go along with it until you are able to look for and find another opportunity. Start your own pet sitting / grooming / kennel operation, for example. Even if she gets her hours back, the place sounds like it has a terrible company culture. Life is too short to work in a poisoned atmosphere.

This is a bit sobering - I always imagine country life to be nice. Here in LA you'd have 15 vet clinics to chose from within easy driving distance and experienced help is always needed.

G

I don't necessarily disagree with you. Ca is frequently on the side of the consumer and worker so I just wondered if there was any resource we could use. I said in my OP that 'fairness' was not the right word to use but being foggy this AM on Vicadin for my back I couldn't think all that well. She now accepts that it's just the way things shake out but truthfully a more considerate employer would bring her back in her original spot. A large corporation would likely have mandates to take care of this situation

Definitely not managed terribly well if she is that frustrated. It could also be that they have several newer people that stepped up to the plate in her absence and now need to be rewarded with good shifts / more hours. You probably have to look at the entire picture not just from your wife's perspective.

Like I said, focus on the positive - recovering well from a bad injury like that is much more important than the job. Get her out of there long term and in the meantime just play along ...

Good Luck!

George

I have 12 employees, so I know what a huge disruption the extended absence of one of them can be. It is unreasonable for 1/12 of a small businesses' workforce to suddenly disappear for 6 months and then expect everything to be exactly the same when they are ready to come back.

I am sorry your wife was I'll, that's unfortunate.

Maybe it's just me, but if I were in her shoes I would just be happy that there was any work for me with my prior employer. Her position was likely replaced, or labor redistributed.

Fmla usually applies up to 3 months per year, and you have to belong to a company with 50 or more employees. This varies by state. Usually requires fmla paperwork be filled out early in the illness.

Honestly, complaining may cost your wife her job....

Good luck

Apparently some of you guys who replied later in this thread don't completely understand my/our position. My wife and I understand the small business aspect. No one is whining here. We just wondered if there was any Ca laws re this issue that we could rely on. It appears that there are not. I had told my wife at first that she was just SOL, fairness be damned. She understood. I realize that pushing this will result in her being fired. We have a handle on where to go with this now. Small business in Ca, at least, is in a totally different category than big corporations. Just is what it is. We were willing to go our own route with this unless there was some legal recourse that would help. Oh well, there isn't.

Nuff said...Just so you guys don't think I fell off the truck last night...

I hear you...

Fairness though is subjective. I think the fact that there was any position waiting for someone that missed 6 months of work is pretty understanding of the employer...

It sucks when someone is I'll. But it wasn't the employers fault. Why should they bear the burden? For the 6 months of illness, the other employees probably worked harder, and longer. They had to readjust their lives. Perhaps additional staff were hired, etc. no employer has to provide employment.

I don't want to be insensitive. I am puzzled why you feel that what occurred was unfair. Legally, the employer could have let your wife go 3 days into her illness. They waited 6 months, twice the legal requirement which they aren't subject to...

I don't think you should hold negative feelings towards your employer. They did more than right by you. Life isn't fair, your wife broke her leg. Your employer didn't cause it, and the fact she still has a job is pretty great...

There is no response to you. You don't have a handle and you can't even spell...sorry, but please bow out and let it drop. You obviously have not ever read what I wrote....and take some English courses...

I don't think his reply was out of line, but obviously you do. The comment on spelling would be appropriate if your spelling was flawless. It's not. read your first post again.

What is the law? If the job has to be 'held' for three months and she was gone six (as someone indicated) then you are out of luck. Personally, if someone worked for me for 13 years and was off six months I would try to hold their job for them.

Fairness is not the right word. It's a legal issue. There is no point in appealing to someone's sense of 'fairness' when it is clear they don't have one.

Let me state this one more time.. I don't ever like having the govt intervene but if such a law were to exist I would want to use it in this case because this woman vet is such a beotch.. I am a vet myself as many of you know and over the years I have come to expect a little more compassion and understanding from my colleagues than perhaps other business people..or at least some courtesy.

Apparently no law exists in this instance which is all I wanted to find out... We are both adults and we can deal with what it is. While I certainly do appreciate those who gave advice/info without judgement can we just let this thread die peacefully without any more 'be thankful' posts... we are thankful for what we/she still has.

In the industry I work in, 5 to 6 months is the cut off for short term disability.
If you're off 6 months or longer the company has the right to replace you and you no longer have any claim to the job if and when you're ready to come back.
6 months is a very long time to be off.

IMO she should be grateful she still has a job and is only ENTITLED the opportunity to re-earn over time the PRIVILEGES she once enjoyed.


EDIT: if this is not what you wanted to hear, feel free to disregard and no reply will be necessary.

No, Sammy... I've learned from all the above. We do understand. When I was in practice though, and had a valuable employee I would have made sure she could come back. Most of my colleagues are the same way. Finding and keeping good techs in this business is very difficult. As I said before, most of the younger ones don't even have much of an education and just have a big 'awe...factor' and want to play with the animals all day. It's hard to trust many of these with serious tasks such as monitoring anesthesia. I should never have used the word 'fairness' in my original post.

You're right. It isn't about fairness. It was more than fair for the employer to keep any part of her job open for six months. I'm sorry about your wife's injury and I'm sorry she works for a beetch. But from the sound of it, the problem isn't one of fairness, it's about the beetch.
I agree that your wife has a lousy employer. She should have addressed common situations like this at the time she hired your wife. We implemented a thick employee handbook years ago to deal with situations like this. It has an accompanying statement that the employee has read, understood, and accepts the terms of employment that must be signed by the employee. For this situation it states explicitly that once your sick leave has been exhausted, you don't have a job anymore. No body walks out of here expecting to walk right back in six months later.
Your response to Sammy also indicates she is a lousy business person. If good techs are really that hard to find, she should be happy to welcome a good one back. I'm sorry your wife is stuck in an area where this person offers the only opportunity for employment.

That's a good point you just made, Mark. I learned first hand how much more respect vets normally give to each other than they do to regular people when a vet told me once "I'm on the phone with another doctor!" as I was trying to ask her a question after being left in an exam room for more than 1/2 hour with no contact and my girl with an opened incision that just needed a couple sutures.

Just like firefighters and law enforcement.....doctors [including vets] should always take care of themselves - that "beotch" your wife works for...well she just doesn't "get it". :rolleyes:

I am now in possession of my own suture "kit" in case the need arises - we'd hate to inconvenience a vet again with our dumb questions....

Respectfully....just a person and his furkids. :)