For you who have been banned from RL

[924CarreraGTP]

I have realized quickly after joining Rennlist yesterday that it is a group of rule followers. They follow rules that other 928 dismantlers make for them. From what I understand anyone who sells parts or (undercuts) the big competition has to be a sponsor or be banned.
After hearing some of the thoughts of the banned Rennlisters on this site, I decided to ban myself from Rennlist. I don't need Rennlist to sell 928 parts. The people on Pelican seem to be more down to earth people. We are the more radical, freedom of speech oriented, sense of humor having people and I salute you all.
On my way out I told them that a lot of good people have been banned from Rennlist and therefore I ban myself. So this is my shout out to all of you who have been banned from Rennlist.com. They can ban whoever they want, but like any job or service that treats it's patrons badly, you can quit them just as quickly as they can quit you. This is America. We have a choice and my choice is Pelican.
I quit Ebay and Paypal six years ago and it hasn't harmed me one bit. I've sold 914 parts, 924 parts, 944 parts cars, and motorcycles on Craiglist.org and done pretty well without Ebay or Paypal. I can survive without Rennlist.

[mikeesik]

Wow . I admire what you've done.

I was a member on the' list'- since 2003.
I learnt a lot and gave a lot back.

I enjoyed their O.T, but what had happened over the years they slowly got rid of the one's that were the reason I went on the list. The ones that stood out.

I find that they have become waaay to politically correct and too serious about a tad bit of verbal "bullying".
Sticks and Stones is- none existent!
Lot of favoritism.

A few on the list and perhaps to several, I wish were my neighbors . I do miss some of them.

The difference about Pelican , be it the 928 forum and the O.T is, more maturity and can take a hit and give it back and all is good.

[924CarreraGTP]

Originally Posted by mikeesik

Wow . I admire what you've done.

I was a member on the' list'- since 2003.
I learnt a lot and gave a lot back.

I enjoyed their O.T, but what had happened over the years they slowly got rid of the one's that were the reason I went on the list. The ones that stood out.

I find that they have become waaay to politically correct and too serious about a tad bit of verbal "bullying".
Sticks and Stones is- none existent!
Lot of favoritism.

A few on the list and perhaps to several, I wish were my neighbors . I do miss some of them.

The difference about Pelican , be it the 928 forum and the O.T is, more maturity and can take a hit and give it back and all is good.

Exactly. I posted once and everyone on there had to get all a$$h*le and tell me their unwritten rules of admitted parts selling as opposed to non admitted parts selling? Whatever the **ck that means. They said I couldn't sell parts without being a sponsor, but last night I posted about a fender and a bumper cover that someone needed and someone said there were no rules about selling parts as long as you're real. So they can take their unwritten rules and bl*w me.

[yardpro]

i am a member of both sites. You fail to understand the business aspect of these sites.

businesses invest a lot of time and money to the site. In return they get exclusive rights to sell their products...

Most advertisers are the same. We will not, for example advertise in a publication that features any ads by a competitor.. that is just good business.

I would not expect them to let you come in and post ads about selling parts, then advertise that you will sell at 10% less than those that pay for the rights to sell there.....

it would be different if you were a contributing member, that everyone knew and came across a 928 and decided to part it out. That was not the case with you. You came in and began your membership there by advertising parts for sale.

What you did was a violation of the base rules that protect sponsors so they will pay money and provide you with a free or almost free place to hang out an share your experiences.....

better you are gone if you are going to be a malcontent, and subversive

[mikeesik]

I'd like to hear from others.-really.

[szyzygy]

Originally Posted by yardpro

i am a member of both sites. You fail to understand the business aspect of these sites.

businesses invest a lot of time and money to the site. In return they get exclusive rights to sell their products...

Most advertisers are the same. We will not, for example advertise in a publication that features any ads by a competitor.. that is just good business.

I would not expect them to let you come in and post ads about selling parts, then advertise that you will sell at 10% less than those that pay for the rights to sell there.....

it would be different if you were a contributing member, that everyone knew and came across a 928 and decided to part it out. That was not the case with you. You came in and began your membership there by advertising parts for sale.

What you did was a violation of the base rules that protect sponsors so they will pay money and provide you with a free or almost free place to hang out an share your experiences.....

better you are gone if you are going to be a malcontent, and subversive

This is nonsense.

Plenty of firms that are way bigger than your popsicle stand pay for space alongside their competitors.

Do you support a free market system??!?!?!?!

[mikeesik]

Originally Posted by yardpro

i am a member of both sites. You fail to understand the business aspect of these sites.



better you are gone if you are going to be a malcontent, and subversive

You are absolutely overstating a private individual. Plus he was a newbie on the forum!

Rennlist over the years, has become too much adue about money and has forgotten their fundamentals.

That is, people make Rennlist.

[Pete R]

It's pretty much BS as far as I can figure out. There are only about 3-4 places making any money off 928 parts, and they don't have forums. Everyone else could completely not sell another 928 part and probably not even notice. Hassling a guy over some used parts seems a bit dickish. I'm not nor never have been on Rennlist but i assume 924 pretty much posts the same there as here. (No offence to 924) but a small time dude with a few 20 year old dismantled cars in his backyard isn't hurting anyone.

[szyzygy]

There's like what, 5,000 928s around these days?!?!?! Someone seriously thinks this is a market they should control?

[mikeesik]

Rennlist , is a bit of a cult. In the upper channels.

Gretch is his own man. Good man.

But, another.

His name rhymes with candy.....

[924CarreraGTP]

Originally Posted by Pete R

It's pretty much BS as far as I can figure out. There are only about 3-4 places making any money off 928 parts, and they don't have forums. Everyone else could completely not sell another 928 part and probably not even notice. Hassling a guy over some used parts seems a bit dickish. I'm not nor never have been on Rennlist but i assume 924 pretty much posts the same there as here. (No offence to 924) but a small time dude with a few 20 year old dismantled cars in his backyard isn't hurting anyone.

Again, Exactly! I took on these two 928s because the owner could not sell ANY parts from them. He knew I was into 928s and we worked out a deal. A couple of these 928 parts dismantlers are straight up a$$h*les. I've had conversations with one company and I figured out within the first conversation that I wasn't going to do business with them. One of them happens to be a sponsor of RL. What's really going on is that 928 fever is coming to an end, and everyone is fighting for survival in a dieing market. The difference between me and them is that I knew that when I started. I do this to keep fresh spares for my own cars, and to try to help some other owners while making the bare minimum of money on the side. The parts I sell to others really hasn't made me ANY money, but it has gotten me many thousands of dollars in parts for my cars. I make my money at my own shop repairing and servicing old people's Mercedes. So RL looks flat out silly to me.

[924CarreraGTP]

Oh, and Yardpro. The bait has already been set duder. The people who need parts know where to find me, and have already contacted me about some parts. In fact I'm hopeful to make about $100 from the "user" status on RL. ha ha I've yet to figure out the mechanics of RL's posting nonsense. Even still $100.... Wow, I'm rich! I'll get to pay my electric bill and maybe buy some gum.

[mikeesik]

Originally Posted by 924CarreraGTP

One of them happens to be a sponsor of RL. What's really going on is that 928 fever is coming to an end, and everyone is fighting for survival in a dieing market. The difference between me and them is that I knew that when I started. RL looks flat out silly to me.

You said something there. Very significant.

[924CarreraGTP]

I think I've decided I'm going to build my own 928 website. It's going to have forums and everything, but it's going to be different in some ways. It's going to be a real source of help for 928 owners. I've got some strange ideas for it. Let me know if you guys have any ideas. Also while we are on the subject. I can get new 928 parts for those of you who need them. It won't be any cheaper than the competition, but I can do it. I have access to it.

[Danglerb]

Originally Posted by szyzygy

There's like what, 5,000 928s around these days?!?!?! Someone seriously thinks this is a market they should control?

USA had about 25k 928 imported, maybe 13k or so still around (guessing from an estimate by those who would know of 16k 3 or so years ago). Maybe that many again around outside of the US. Its not the number of cars though, its the overall decline in value putting many cars in the hands of people who don't keep them in the condition they deserve and that has meant harder times for all the parts vendors. A LOT of people are also getting old, and/or running into family issues, and that can hit a small community like 928 owners hard.

When I was banned from RL a couple years ago I was determined to make some other place just as good of a resource and put a lot of time into posting here and roadfly, and on Leo's forum Porsche 928 Forums dot com - Index page and I think good strong communities resulted (hardly my effort, but I was pushing for it). That said, RL is where the deep well is in 928 resources, technical and social, and being without it sucked, especially where I was at in working on my car and unable to follow guides etc.

If you can't deal with some "personalities" the social side of Porsche ownership isn't going to work well for you. Personality doesn't bother me, but I drove more than a few nuts with my youth and enthusiasm for the 928.

[924CarreraGTP]

"Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason?
Why, if it prosper, none dare call it treason." Thomas Fuller
If Danglerb, and many others are banned from RL. That puts a whole lot of people in a position to do one better than RL. I really like Pelican. I've posted nonsense in the past, cracked jokes, and even diagnosed how to fix at least one car. I like the ability to post used parts for sale due to the fact that Pelican knows a few hundred dollars in used 928 parts sold on here is not going to hurt their business. I also like free markets because if a market is not free, it's set up to benefit other people and most of the time, it isn't you. Danglerb, you guys have done well with this forum and though I'm young and hot headed, I definitely know now that I'm in the right place. I have a great amount of enthusiasm for the 928 series and this is always my first stop. I'm definitely a character in the way of Porsche owners. My character often clashes with elitist scum bags. I apologize for bringing it here.
I also agree that the cars are falling on hard times due to many things. The economy, fuel prices, high prices on 928 parts from the beginning, and irresponsible owners. We are going to have to face the facts though. A 1980's V8 gas guzzler has seen it's better days already. The market for 928s has crashed. That probably will not change. I hope that it does, but if so it will not be any time soon. I personally feel that the 928 is every bit the mechanical marvel that the 911 is if not more so. The rest of the world isn't seeing it, but time will tell. I've told this story many times, but when I was a boy you could buy a 356 Speedster for $10K. Fifteen years has been damn good to the Speedster in my book. When I was a kid they were just another worn out souped up VW. Now they are $250,000 worn out souped up VW's. Another example is the Hemi Cuda. You couldn't give them away in the early 80's but my how that has changed.

[924CarreraGTP]

Danglerb, porsche928forums.com index page is way cool too. Thanks!

[DougM]

Is the parts selling a new rule? I sold a bunch of parts over the last year there and the only thing I was told is to post a price. In fact, one of the dismantlers even purchased some parts from me as well as the moderators. Did you pay a membership fee? Maybe that is why they got bent.

[tmpusfugit]

just some thoughts, not trying to start a fight....
I have been a member there for a couple of years and have advertised parts there, as well as here. They "require" a paid membership and a price to be quoted on each part in the offer of sale....and both are called out in the "read this before you post" segment of the site....I don't find their rules disagreable or onerous. They are just their rules and I have found the site sponsors to be good and helpful folks, buying or not buying from them. I have not yet offended any of the moderators, time will tell on that point

There are over zelous folks everywhere, there and here. That said that site does seem to lean more toward 32 valve cars and more of them are at the higher end of the food chain. I like it here better as it seems more 16v folks post, and it does seem a bit lower key here. I appreciate and enjoy both sites...

[924CarreraGTP]

This is exactly my point. Why would anyone pay a fee to sell parts when it's completely free to do it here? I'm not going pay a fee to sell parts. That's why I quit ebay. That and the fact that PayPal is a scammers wet dream. It's in paypal's agreement that they can take money from your bank account without your permission. I know a drag racer who lost $20,000 to paypal and their "buyer is always right" policy. As you can see ebay has changed now because after people got screwed real good, they quit using it. Now it's all buy it now and eBay stores. Like someone said above. It takes people to be a success. Without people the cards always fold. Hopefully with my self bannishment, other people will see the light and walk away from that corporate member screw job at RL. I rather hope they do. That's what they get for banning people for unpopular speech in a free country.
I personally like the 16 valve 4.7s no doubt about it. The GTS is nice too, but I could have six 4.7s for the price of a GTS and never have a problem with an interference engine. Sure, I wouldn't have the big performance, but the 4.7 is enough for me.