580hp Camaro ZL1 vs 662hp Mustang GT500 comparo (video)

[kaisen]

[MarkRobinson]

I would rather drive a yellow Fiat 500 than either of those cars.

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by MarkRobinson

I would rather drive a yellow Fiat 500 than either of those cars.

I knew you pitched for the other team

[MarkRobinson]

I Pitch for Porsche as my signature indicates.

I've sat in both a $49k Cobra & a $117k ZR1: they're both junk: Couldn't stay in the ZR1 more than a few seconds as the fumes from the cheap spray-on-carpet adhesive were so strong it was promoting an instant headache. The cobra's interior looked like a $7k Dihatsu's interior: awful & cheap: $47?? Are you kidding?

& for $117k they can use pre-made carpets? Must they use "boating" carpet? just awful.

Both cars charged for leather, but the leather looked like that from a $12 Walmart suitcase: pure junk.

[kaisen]

Yes, because a performance car should be about "finish"

In your case, finish is about how things are trimmed

In my case, finish is about who takes the checkered flag first

[MarkRobinson]

Sure I understand that, though Porsche is no slouch in winning either.

I'm talking about a total package car: looks, performance (acceleration, braking, handling), comfort, quality of components, quality of build, uniqueness.

[kaisen]

Show me a $60K car that you think is a better "total package" than a ZL1 or GT500 and I'll guarantee that you'll give up boatloads of "performance (acceleration, braking, handling)" for "comfort, [perceived] quality of build"

A ZL1 or GT500 would wipe any $60K production Porsche off the racetrack, handily

[MarkRobinson]

I shouldn't have posted on this thread: clearly I'm bias & acknowledge that. You deserve the right to post on these two performers without people like me pressing their opinions & finds on cars you find interesting.

Sorry about that, I'll check out now.

[kaisen]

I'm just suprised that Porsche-bias lends one to drool over factory RS models that have vinyl-over-cardboard doorpanels with simple loop pulls, no sound deadening, thin carpet, no a/c, and plexiglass windows.....

YET find it blasphemous that an American performance car may have allocated funds toward Brembo brakes, sticky Michelin tires, sophisticated MR suspension, and an extra couple hundred horsepower instead of better "soft touch" dashboard surfaces, more supple leather, or fancy carpet.

Biased indeed.

I say, enjoy them all

[onewhippedpuppy]

You can't argue that the domestics have the "go fast for cheap" game wrapped up. Dollar for dollar there's no way to go fast for less. I'm biased towards imports, but have to admit that the new Mustangs have a certain appeal to them. I hate the gun slit windows and limited visibility of the Challenger and Camaro, but am really tempted to take a new 5.0 Mustang for a spin just for the fun of it. 420 HP and the ability to corner like a sports car for $30k? That's really hard to beat.

As for quality, I've had all three as rentals for an extended period of time. They are cheap inside, but in my opinion not appallingly so. Unlike domestics of ten years ago there aren't the persistent squeaks and rattles, and parts falling into your lap does not appear to be imminent. Must of the touch surfaces are actually pretty good, with the obvious hard plastic cost cutting in more subtle areas like the dash top, door panels, etc. For the money they are comparable to similarly priced (i.e. cheap) cars. It's hardly fair to compare them to Porsches that start at twice the price.

[MarkRobinson]

In case you missed the memo: lightening is cool. Sometimes it's expensive (CF), sometimes it's now. Either way I can't go down to Home Depot to replace some of the carpet in my Porsche's like you can in either of those heavy pig cars shown above. Porsche's have most always remained nimble and adequately powered against other contenders, always maintaining a high degree of style & sophistication.

You get "both" from cars like Porsche's, and usually neither from cars like Corvettes or Mustangs.

Like I said I could go on for hours but don't feel it's right to continue to bash these two cars on YOUR thread.

[Joe Bob]

Are modern RS Porsche models like that?

[911boost]

Mark, the gap between out 964T's and the Mustangs/Camaros of the same era is very apparent. There just isn't any comparison in my opinon, especailly interior and fit and finish wise.

That gap has shrunk in my opinion.

The thought of having that much power and two Mustangs again (I still have my '66 is very appealing to me, and I have toyed with the idea of takng a break from the Porsche. That much power with a warranty and not having the threat of a $$$$ engine overhaul if something goes wrong just sounds kind of nice.

Great video, thanks for posting it Eric.

Bill

[scottmandue]

So how does the video end? Who wins? (I'm at work and can't watch the video)

Not that it really matters to me... not like I can spend that kind of money on a car.. especialy as impractical as those are.

But FWIW I prefer the Camaro styling, totally subjective I know, just my taste.

Looking into renting a Camero just for giggles.

[kaisen]

Although they had to pick a winner (the Camaro) they were very, very close. The Mustang outperformed the Camaro in the numbers game.

I don't concede Mark's point about fit and finish.....or the philosophy on weight (4000+ pound Camaro?!?). But it's all about the Benjamins. Fit and finish of a Porsche? A Porsche with the same power to weight ratio as the $62K GT500 (5.8 lbs/hp) you'd be buying a $189K GT3 RS 4.0 (6.4 lbs/hp) or a $249K GT2 RS (5.0 lbs/hp). Will the Porsche have a nicer interior? It freaking better!

For $100K more, I'd think you could get your entire interior recovered in Connolly hide. Every square inch.

[JavaBrewer]

I have to say the 2010+ Porsche interiors I have experienced at the auto show left me underwhelmed to say the least. As for the two cars in the video - IMO I hate the interior layout of the Chevy. Perhaps if you were 6'+ it would work but with my 5'-10" frame I felt like I was trapped in a deep bunker. I really like the front clip of the Mustang but the rest of the car does not work...again IMO.

I have not driven either and probably never will. Neither are on my horizon as far as car needs or wants however I am sure both are incredible drivers. If I were to spring for a new car (and that's not going to happen) I would be more in line with subtle WRX with 'goodies'. My short list is to replace the '80s 911 I sold years ago and supplement with a 10yr used fullsize domestic truck.

[speeder]

It's not just the interiors. Every square inch of the Porsche is higher quality, generally speaking.

There is no right or wrong in this argument. If you like the American cars and actually want to own one, they are a hell of a lot cheaper than the German solution to the *build a sports car* challenge.

They absolutely perform well for the $$, you can't touch them in that category. The reason I would rather have an 8 y.o. 997S than any new American pony car for the same $$ is simple. I'm of the opinion that there is great pleasure in owning fine objects, whether they be the laptop I'm typing on or a house. There is a corresponding schity felling in owning things that are schitty, no matter how fast they go. Poor quality can never be masked, either in a 13mm box end wrench or a sports car. Will they do the job? I guess so. I don't want it, though.

[Steve Viegas]

Just curious, how does the think tank believe a Boss 302 would fair in this competition?

[kaisen]

Originally Posted by Steve Viegas

Just curious, how does the think tank believe a Boss 302 would fair in this competition?

The HOT Boss 302 Laguna Seca track-spec is only a couple seconds slower around Laguna Seca than the 2013 GT500 or ZL1

[gtc]

Originally Posted by speeder

It's not just the interiors. Every square inch of the Porsche is higher quality, generally speaking.

There is no right or wrong in this argument. If you like the American cars and actually want to own one, they are a hell of a lot cheaper than the German solution to the *build a sports car* challenge.

They absolutely perform well for the $$, you can't touch them in that category. The reason I would rather have an 8 y.o. 997S than any new American pony car for the same $$ is simple. I'm of the opinion that there is great pleasure in owning fine objects, whether they be the laptop I'm typing on or a house. There is a corresponding schity felling in owning things that are schitty, no matter how fast they go. Poor quality can never be masked, either in a 13mm box end wrench or a sports car. Will they do the job? I guess so. I don't want it, though.

+1, well said IMO.
Although the Boxster Spyder door panels are definitely crappy. I think my old beater 911's doors rattle less when they shut.