That's irrelevant, unless you're in the car when it's submerged. Oh wait...;)

In both cases, the car is ruined.

And heat and oxygen. Lots of heat. Shorting a Li-ion battery can cause the battery to start on fire.

I agree. A Tesla is a bad choice for your salt-water submarine needs.

2013 Motor Trend Car of the Year: Tesla Model S - Motor Trend

<script src="http://player.automotive.com/player.js?height=480&loop=0&deepLinkEmbedCode=Q5NX lzNjrVCxeSNa3geomU2K-JMnq2kF&embedCode=Q5NXlzNjrVCxeSNa3geomU2K-JMnq2kF&video_pcode=I1eWc6Dcr1rp9rzKrnEgwYTJhKnc&w idth=853"></script>

Does that mean Tesla contributed the most ad revenue to Motor Trend this year?:p

In an October presidential debate, Mitt Romney jeered that Tesla, Solyndra, and others were "losers" that had proven bad bets for loans from the Obama administration. Musk stayed silent then, but he couldn't resist a little gloating on Monday. Recalling Romney's remark that Tesla was a loser, he said, "In retrospect he was right about the object of that statement, but not the subject."

For a second there I though this was about Tesla posting a profit or something. But alas and without fail they tanked again at a loss of 306 million for 2012. Thank goodness it was the gov's money and not theirs.

Tesla Motors Financial Statements TSLA | The Motley Fool

Seems Mitt was right.

If your business requires government subsidies to stay afloat then it is a failure from the business sense. My company is bankrupt because they made great products that ultimately were not profitable. Sound familiar? However, since the government hates business jets and has made derogatory comments to further damage a weak market, no bailout for us.....

There are 12,000 people (as of 11/12) who have put down a substantial deposit to be on the waiting list for a new Tesla S.

How long is the waiting list on a business jet?

Sometimes years. If they're so popular, why is the company losing money?

See, the funny thing about business is that just making a great product isn't enough. You need a great product that you can sell at a great price to attract customers while still making a profit. If your great product requires a huge amount of R&D expense that cannot be recouped by the sale of your product, then you have failed. Looking at their financials Tesla R&D is roughly equal to gross sales, that's no way to run a business. Tesla products are a technological achievement, I won't argue that point. But if the company is losing money then they are a business failure.

Simple question - without the government money, what would happen to Tesla?

They've taken very little government money. Their loans are/were dependent on DELIVERING cars, which they've only just started to do. Their production line is just getting up to speed.

Tesla is capitalized well enough to ride out their start-up losses

Doesn't matter really, they are not turning a profit and if you read their financials they are now out of operating capitol. Their recent award was drummed up to get some people to buy stock to keep the company afloat, but it's not enough.

Unless they get another bailout they can't run another another quarter on their cash reserves. 12k orders at 40k with a net around %20 per vehicle (I'm being generous with that net) won't even get them to the end of this winter.

Taps is playing for Tesla.

Another bailout? When did they get a first bailout??

We'll see if they're around next Summer. If not, that means you were wrong. Agreed?

Grant, loan, bailout, little difference when you consider the source of the funds. By next summer, I would take that bet.

Two likely scenarios here, one they get a huge influx of cash from "a source" and continue to operate at a loss. Or two, they are purchased by one of the foreign manufactures as a cheap method for gaining their patents.

According to Tesla's formal statements they will be cash-flow positive by the end of this quarter (end of 2012) and be profitable for the calendar year 2013.

We'll see.

Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it. -Tom Callahan

Yes, until you or I have credible information otherwise, Tesla's formal statements will have to suffice.

At this point, their math works. They should be sustainable.
But a lot can happen, both positive and negative. Look at Apple. Look at Boeing.
Never say never. That goes both ways.

Here's a snapshot of those statements from Tesla's Elon Musk, in an interview from your favorite news source:

<script type="text/javascript" src="http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/embed.js?id=1967301651001&w=853&h=480"></script

Me? I've never viewed a second of Fox news in my life. As far as Musk goes, he's an expert in getting gov' money, that's about it. SpaceX for example...

PayPal was just a government subsidized project, right?