Two points:

1) Why not buy a car that you already have the tools to fix? I will be an older car, but so what?

2) Older cars don't tend to lose their value like newer ones. So keeping an older car in good shape will be better for you financially as well.

I do some of my own work, send some of it to an independent and some of it to dealers. All three options have their merits from time to time. It comes down to what is the best solution for each problem. I've never been afraid to use a dealer, if that's where the best service/most knowledge for a particular car/issue could be found.

JR

I believe this is the crux of the issue. Times have changed. Advances in technology, coupled with ever-increasing demands on manufacturers to increase mpg, reduce pollution and provide additional safety features have made modern vehicles far more complex...and more expensive. Sophisticated technology requires equally sophisticated tools to diagnose problems and make repairs. This trend will not reverse and future vehicles will be even more complex than today's. There's an up-side to all this though. Despite all the horror stories we read about, on the whole, modern vehicles are more reliable and less maintenance-intensive than ever. Again, it's the mind set thing...stop looking at a vehicle and only think of all the possible things that can go wrong with it. Think instead of how that vehicle will suit your needs and provide some enjoyment while you're driving it. Use some modern technology (the Internet) and do some research to find vehicles that have an acceptable blend of desirable features, performance and reliability. Maintain and repair what you can, and if it needs something that's beyond your skill level, just take it to a good indy shop, pay the going rate and don't lose any sleep over it.

I have never tried this, but the Chinese make knock off vehicle diagnostic systems with VMWare images to emulate the dealership computer(s). I think the website is vidaobd2.com. Maybe this will be the new thing? I think it is more of a grey area (software piracy?) Plus, I don't know if I would trust the software due to malware, etc. With that being said, VCDS from Ross Tuning is a great tool for diagnosing systems on my B5 Audi and I hope there is more aftermarket support for other marques in the future.

Thanks Jim, too bad I dont fit.

I put brakes on an Accord last night. ~$50 in parts for front pads and rotors. Unreal how cheap some bits are now. Maybe that helps the hurt of paying for a module reset on another car?

Again, I'm not anti-technology. Generally speaking I agree, modern cars offer better performance, better MPG, typically better reliability, and more conveniences than ever. I think what bothers me is the fact that there are things on them that I can't fix, and not because of my personal skill level. Maybe it's a bit of ego? I'm also a cheapskate, and hate the thought of paying someone else $100+/hour to work on my car.

My opinion is you can keep the basic car (engine) running with a scanner that will monitor all the OBD (SAE J????) signals.

The radio, door locks, power windows are another matter.

I'm in the same boat.

I've done all the work on all of our cars (we usually have 4 cars in the family) for 25 years. The only things I haven't done is alignments, tire changes and some very minor AC stuff.

So far, I've gotten away with our "modern" cars, the newest being an 2008 BMW, and a slightly older than that MB.

But I haven't had any major problems with them yet. Just regular maintenance, and some glitches. I have contacts at shops, though, and they'll hook them up to their computers for me, if I need it, as long as I don't abuse the favors.

Here's my thoughts so far:

1) Of course, the basic mechanicals are the same as always. These are still 4 stroke, water cooled, internal combustion engine, disc brake, etc. cars.

2) As far as the electronics, there are way too many of them. But if we could somehow get a hold of the readers, these cars would actually be EASIER to work on than our old cars. The diagnostic capacity of these things is incredible. For most problems, you just hook it up, and in 5 minutes it tells you exactly what has malfunctioned. Then it's just the normal process of swapping a mechanical part.

3) From what I can see so far, these things are available to independents. There are a lot of independent BMW and MB shops, and they seem to be able to fix anything. At least from what I can tell.

4) If you don't have the diagnostic computer, it can be very difficult to diagnose even seemingly simple problems. And, as you point out, things like an iDrive malfunction are pretty much impossible to fix.

I think a great invention would be an i Phone app where you hook the phone up to the car and it functions as a diagnostic computer! If that eventually happens, these cars would be hugely DIY.

That, I think, is the bottom line for the future of DIY. If we can reasonably get access to the diagnostic programs, we'll be ok.

I'm hopeful it will happen.

thanks for the info. I'm in the market for a code reader for the toolbox and if I can get more capability on the laptop systems it's enticing.

I have to say that this is of interest. While I agree that it is somewhat a gray legal area, if you don't have access to the BMW computer, you gotta do what you gotta do.

I agree the code readers are just another tool (one you never loan out).

I have the VCDS from Ross Tech and I am getting ready to upgrade to the newer version for $159.00 after trading in my old cable.

Having this was one factor in buying another VW over a different brand.

We currently have five cars and I do much of the maintenance on four of them. The wife has a newish Benz that she insists on taking to the dealer. I didn't put up much of a fight on that issue.

My daughter has gone off to college so we've decided to downsize to "only" four cars.

The dilemma is - do we keep the 2006 BMW 325i (daighter's car) or the 2001 BMW 325ci (my DD). The 2001 is a manual transmission so if I keep that someone will be driving the (11 mpg around town) Armada when my daughter is home on school breaks.

On the other hand, I can do most of the work on the 2001. And it's needed plenty of work - alternator, radiator, well, the entire cooling system, front LCAs. The 2006 is a PITA to work on, e.g., the local Indy wanted $800.00 to change the valve/cam cover gasket! Sounded outrageous until I found out how myuch crap you have to move just to get at it. It's easily a half day's work. Not quite like a 327 Chevy. And, it's shown signs of electrical/electronic issues - three window regulators/switches and now the radio display comes and goes. Radio wiorks just fine but you can't see what station it is on most of the time.

The 2001 has 107k miles, the 2006 has 65k. And the 2006 has those truck tire like run flat tires.

Maybe I should just dump both and get a 996 Turbo for a DD.:D


BTW, one thing I have noticed is that as you get older DIY looses some of it's luster. For example, I had the local Indy do the LCAs and, "since you've got it up on the rack, you might as well change the oil and filter." Is my man-card in jeopardy?:eek:

I've found this to be true as well. I continue to do routine maintenance, but for anything much more than that, it's off to the shop. My free time has become too valuable (to me) to be wasting it on major vehicle repairs just to save a little money. When I feel like working on a car, I'll tinker with my old VW.

Ok, consensus is, new Bimmers suck to work on. Ive had two BMW E39s 5ers (1998-2003) and they are very good to work on, and Ive done everything but rebuild the head/engine on them.

The internet really helps

Older car or newer car, if it's happened to someone, there is a thread on it. If it's happened a bunch, there are lots of details on the repair. So most of the common failures are fairly well documented. This really helps even to diagnose things. It's a great resource.

So I wouldn't have great fear wrenching on newer cars. They still have the same basic mechanical systems. Most electronics are plug-n-play throw-away anyway, just buy a used module. Even if the dealer has to sync or reprogram a module it's not the end of the world or thousands of dollars.

I've found that the CAD/CAE systems implemented in designing new cars truly helps make it easier to work on them. A lot of thought on how things come apart are put into newer cars. I'm not talking about some of the Rube Goldberg complex cars (some Audis come to mind), but most cars. Plus, fasteners on newer cars are easier to remove -- their not corroded on quite as permanently.

you still have to diagnose all the electronic systems to find out which wire broke...


now, what is harder to diagnose, cars with OBD or 1980s cars w/o it?

I had an OBD I E36 that was pretty easy to work on. Having the OBD system was nice as long as you didn't take any of the codes for face value. The only tool you need to pull the codes is the key and your foot.

I really can't see myself buying another BMW, though. It was a low quality POS that was poorly designed and poorly built.

Why 'some' females make lousy mechanics:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1347060853.jpg

Been talking about this situation with a friend of mine that is a fleet mechanic. He said that things are getting so bad that in the future you won't be able to go purchase used parts from a junk yard and put them on your car. If you do, it will automatically fry the electronics. You will have to take your used parts to the dealer to have them programmed to work on your particular vehicle. He says that he doubts that anyone will be able to get around this because of the cost of creating a program that would allow a home mechanic to do it themselves. He says hard parts like shocks, drive shafts and the like will be okay, but anything that is electrically controlled will be effected.

Many electronic parts require calibration or electronic adjustment as part of install. That element of the future is already here.