The Plight of the DIY Mechanic

[onewhippedpuppy]

I've been pondering this for a while now, I'm curious what thoughts you all have. I'm very proud of the fact that I do all of my own maintenance and repair work on my vehicles, not only do I save money but I enjoy it. There's nothing like getting up early on a Saturday morning and heading out to tinker on cars while everyone sleeps. Me being me, I've also been contemplating picking up a used sedan so my family has an around town car, we've put over 10k on my wife's new F150 in 3 months. In looking at my options in a 2005-ish sport sedan, I've come to a difficult realization - there is a lot on these cars that I simply cannot fix.

I don't know how many ECUs an E60 545i BMW has, but I know it's a lot. Without BMW specific diagnostic computers there are many problems (and there will be problems) that I simply cannot diagnose and repair. If the iDrive flakes out and I can't control 90% of my car's functions, I'm SOL. Same goes for my Maserati, a car that scares me because of the potential for big bills. There are many items that require the Ferrari/Maserati SD2/3 computer, which means a 2.5 hour drive for me. Even my RX8, a relatively simple car that has been dead nuts reliable, has multiple proprietary ECUs that can only be fully read by a dealer.

So, other than running up the white flag, what to do? Much to my wife's dismay I've been looking at older cars that are actually fixable, which of course has its own challenges. While an E34 M5 or W124 500E (both lust worthy) are certainly simple in comparison to modern cars, they are also all 20+ years old. So I'll be lucky that I can fix them, because there's plenty of fixing that will need to be done. I think my '88 Carrera hits the sweet spot for technology vs convenience vs simplicity, so maybe I need to look older yet to an E28 M5 or W201 190E 2.3-16. I don't have an answer to my problem statement, but I think it's an interesting question for the DIY-ers to ponder. Which is better - having an old car that you can fix (and will probably have to), or a new one that you can't?

[dewolf]

Wife's E39 540 has been a very good car. Had it around four years I guess and all it's needed was a coil and brake pads. I have done preventative stuff (couple of front bushes etc) that I wanted to do, the car did'nt need it after inspecting the parts. I'm picking up an E46 M3 Monday and I still reckon I could do most of the maintenance on that.
E39 530 would be a great daily family runabout. But so to would a W210 E320 etc.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

... I think my '88 Carrera hits the sweet spot for technology vs convenience vs simplicity, so maybe I need to look older yet to an E28 M5 or W201 190E 2.3-16. I don't have an answer to my problem statement, but I think it's an interesting question for the DIY-ers to ponder. Which is better - having an old car that you can fix (and will probably have to), or a new one that you can't?

You know more about cars than I ever will, but that's why I like my '88 (and I've been doing all the work/upgrades, etc.) for the past ten years. Don't have an answer for you (wifey ) though. Very interested in the responses though...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Honestly this isn't so much about me buying a different car, that's certainly nothing new. I intended it to be more of a commentary on the fact that we can't work on new cars anymore, and if that bothers other people as much as it does me. Though I'm always happy to discuss my next car as well.....

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I've been looking at older cars that are actually fixable, which of course has its own challenges. While an E34 M5 or W124 500E (both lust worthy) are certainly simple in comparison to modern cars, they are also all 20+ years old. So I'll be lucky that I can fix them, because there's plenty of fixing that will need to be done. I think my '88 Carrera hits the sweet spot for technology vs convenience vs simplicity, so maybe I need to look older yet to an E28 M5 or W201 190E 2.3-16. I don't have an answer to my problem statement, but I think it's an interesting question for the DIY-ers to ponder. Which is better - having an old car that you can fix (and will probably have to), or a new one that you can't?

I enjoy DiY on the Porsches I've owned (all air-cooled). I really haven't done any DiY on my wife's car. I'd probably throw in the towel for anything that required factory diagnostic equipment.

[pete3799]

I fix everything on my cars, trucks, even the house.
My take on it........buy a car that won't need any work besides oil + filters.
I've got 2 Toyotas (03 Tacoma with 155K on it and an 01 Highlander w/ 160K) that have never been to the dealers for anything. The Highlander has been the most needy of the two.
Done all the wheel bearings on it, patched the exhaust, fixed the climate control system and few other odds and ends.
If something major goes wrong i'll be forced to seek a skilled (read well equipped) shop.

Yeah they're both boring vehicles but they have served us well. I've got the Porsche if i want to have fun.

[GH85Carrera]

The biggest reason I own a 85 Carrera and a 86 El Camino is I am cheap. #2 reason is I can fix anything on either of them. My wifes car is a total hands off. All I have done to it is add air to the tires. The dealer does an oil change and washes her car is under an hour and charges $45 bucks. All that has been done to it is maintenance stuff. Of course she only has driven it 18,000 miles since new.

[911_Dude]

I understand what you are saying. But its really just a mind set adjustment. I have 4 cars and two bikes I maintain. Only the Cayman R is new. Your right, the new cars have a bunch of ECU modules. But as a DIYer on these newer cars you just have to accept that you need to add a laptop and cable to your big red tool box. There is aftermarket software for every car maker out there that will do most, if not all, of what a dealer can do. For the Cayman I bought a Durametric Pro cable in a group buy. Once you get used to the software, I think it will be very helpful as another tool in the tool box. Another expense? Yes. But the price of doing DIYs on newer cars. You can justify the expense like any other tool. Guys were saying the same thing when OBD ports first showed up on cars back in the 90's. Once you get past the software layer, they are all the same.

[javadog]

I think you should ask your wife what car she would be interested in. Nothing on your short list is anything short of vastly expensive to maintain. There are many cars out there that would probably be a better choice, both for casual use around town and from a maintenance standpoint. Something like a large, older Lexus, for instance. You have a couple of toys already; why add another one?

JR

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by 911_Dude

But as a DIYer on these newer cars you just have to accept that you need to add a laptop and cable to your big red tool box. There is aftermarket software for every car maker out there that will do most, if not all, of what a dealer can do.

Unfortunately this is not true with BMW. They have made almost all of the codes proprietary, so much so that even the dealerships now have to call up to BMW to be told what to fix on any particular car.

I sold my 2006 BMW when I kept getting a light telling me the steering was locked even though it wasn't. Would not allow you to start the car. Fix? Have car towed to BMW dealer where they remove the steering lock and also remove that code from the ECU. Definitely not DIY friendly. Prior to that I did all my own work on my BMW's.

[hardflex]

Drove a Toyota with the push button start the other day and wondered how would I jump the solenoid etc if necessary. Maybe those systems are 100% reliable but what a helpless feeling if it ever failed on the road. I'll stick with the older cars and logic I can control.

[VincentVega]

I'm similar, cant remember when I paid for anything but an alignment. I think of diagnostic software like any other tool in the box, too bad it's so much $$. If there isnt an aftermarket or affordable solution I dont buy the car.

I'm actually thinking about going back to a Honda DD, not sexy but simple and reliable.

[Jim Richards]

Here's a Honda for you, V^2. Acura NSX (Custom)

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by 911_Dude

I understand what you are saying. But its really just a mind set adjustment. I have 4 cars and two bikes I maintain. Only the Cayman R is new. Your right, the new cars have a bunch of ECU modules. But as a DIYer on these newer cars you just have to accept that you need to add a laptop and cable to your big red tool box. There is aftermarket software for every car maker out there that will do most, if not all, of what a dealer can do. For the Cayman I bought a Durametric Pro cable in a group buy. Once you get used to the software, I think it will be very helpful as another tool in the tool box. Another expense? Yes. But the price of doing DIYs on newer cars. You can justify the expense like any other tool. Guys were saying the same thing when OBD ports first showed up on cars back in the 90's. Once you get past the software layer, they are all the same.

Kurt nailed it in his reply below. I'm not a technophobe, far from it actually. But there are manufacturers that lock down their code such that an aftermarket program (like Durametrics) will not provide access. In those cases you are SOL without taking it to a dealer or very well equipped independent.

Originally Posted by javadog

I think you should ask your wife what car she would be interested in. Nothing on your short list is anything short of vastly expensive to maintain. There are many cars out there that would probably be a better choice, both for casual use around town and from a maintenance standpoint. Something like a large, older Lexus, for instance. You have a couple of toys already; why add another one?

JR

It's not for the wife JR, I only added her opinion as commentary. She frequently dislikes my cars, that's why she has her own shiny new one. As for me, I have a genuine dislike for boring cars. Sadly interesting tends to equal maintenance intensive, but you have to pay to play I suppose.

[VaSteve]

Originally Posted by 911_Dude

I understand what you are saying. But its really just a mind set adjustment. I have 4 cars and two bikes I maintain. Only the Cayman R is new. Your right, the new cars have a bunch of ECU modules. But as a DIYer on these newer cars you just have to accept that you need to add a laptop and cable to your big red tool box. There is aftermarket software for every car maker out there that will do most, if not all, of what a dealer can do. For the Cayman I bought a Durametric Pro cable in a group buy. Once you get used to the software, I think it will be very helpful as another tool in the tool box. Another expense? Yes. But the price of doing DIYs on newer cars. You can justify the expense like any other tool. Guys were saying the same thing when OBD ports first showed up on cars back in the 90's. Once you get past the software layer, they are all the same.

x2.

BUT, on the other hand....I have a 2004 e46 BMW that's my daily driver (and I don't drive much actually, it only has 100,700 miles). When I need to replace it, I simply can't afford another new BMW. New ones are very nice, but the model has changed from buy and own, to lease and replace. I like DIYing myself, but there are some things I just have to throw in the towel on.

So, where does that leave a "middle class" DIY car enthusiast? I don't exactly know. If I was to replace this car with new something today, aside from a tow vehicle, I would look at a Subaru maybe? I guess they have lots of people that DIY and lots of info out there? I don't know. I like Mazda as well, but not FWD.

A lot depends on what breaks I guess. In 8 years of owning my car, I needed a $50 code reader to figure out that it needed a new thermostat. I turned on the airbag light when trying to replace the window regulator. I had a friend with a machine reset the light.

Wife has a 2010 sienna van. I did brakes on it, but everything else from oil changes, to whatever goes elsewhere. It doesn't fit easily in the garage to work on it. That's just how it is I guess.

[hardflex]

I have the laptop. Are you saying I can buy a cable to connect to the diagnostic plug on the car and do code reading on my laptop with the right software?

[javadog]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sadly interesting tends to equal maintenance intensive, but you have to pay to play I suppose.

You might consider switching cars less often and saving a little money. I've owned a zillion cars and the money I spent on my car hobby, for the 20 or 25 years I was most active in it, would allow me to buy virtually any car I wanted had I put it in the bank instead. I could have had a toy or two along the way, just not so many of them. You have a 911. You have a Maserati. That should be enough to placate you. You don't need a cool car to keep miles off of your wife's new truck. You need something that you can put a lot of miles on, for not much money.

At least, that's what I would do in your position, having been down the road you're headed down.

JR

[911_Dude]

Originally Posted by hardflex

I have the laptop. Are you saying I can buy a cable to connect to the diagnostic plug on the car and do code reading on my laptop with the right software?

Yes, depending on the car. There are even cables that connect to iphones.

Proprietary software just means the manufacturer wont sell it. It doesnt mean someone wont hack it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by hardflex

I have the laptop. Are you saying I can buy a cable to connect to the diagnostic plug on the car and do code reading on my laptop with the right software?

Yes, for certain makes. Here is the Durametric tool: Diagnostic Tool for Porsche | Durametric

Similar product for VAG stuff: Ross-Tech: VCDS

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by javadog

You might consider switching cars less often and saving a little money. I've owned a zillion cars and the money I spent on my car hobby, for the 20 or 25 years I was most active in it, would allow me to buy virtually any car I wanted had I put it in the bank instead. I could have had a toy or two along the way, just not so many of them. You have a 911. You have a Maserati. That should be enough to placate you. You don't need a cool car to keep miles off of your wife's new truck. You need something that you can put a lot of miles on, for not much money.

At least, that's what I would do in your position, having been down the road you're headed down.

JR

JR, while I appreciate the intent of your advice, that really wasn't the point of this thread. My constant car swapping typically has a purpose, as nearly all of these cars are sold for more than I pay for them after investing some sweat equity. I paid off my college student loans by buying cars, fixing them up, and reselling. I only mentioned car shopping to put this bigger issue into context, as a DIY mechanic do you surrender to the dealership or just buy an older car?