Advice on correcting dog behavior, please
 

We've got that 8y old lab, still behaving like a puppy, and we recently moved her living quarters from the screened porch to the yard per se (FL weather, no big difference), with of course protection from rain, sun etc... Really in terms of accommodations it's pretty similar. But the dog keeps wanting to come back to her former location, so she can see who's in the house, and in the process will blow though the mosquito screen, the lattice work, and if necessary the aluminum cage structure of the mosquito screen... I've F$%$#ing had it with her...

Disclaimer: I am not a dog person, I resisted for years until my wife wore me down, and she did not exactly follow thru with her side of things - not enough walks, too much dog poop... I'm reclaiming the patio because I'm sick of it stinking of dog and the outdoor furniture being used as a rubbing area for dog hair and dirt. Again, not a dog person. I like her well enough because I'm no sociopath and she's nice with the kids, but after replacing the screen 10x in the last 3y and now the $$$ expensive new lattice I spend a w/e bolting down to foil her, I came home to a fresh hole and destroyed lattice, and was ready to kick the living **** out of her... Which a) is not nice, and b) I don't wanna do as a matter of principle (easy dog lovers, just venting my "feelings" at seeing my handywork ruined over and over - I occasionally also feel like kicking deserving people and I don't do it either ;-)

So, what do you suggest ?
- I could easily give her up to a friendly family but my wife is not so hot on that (despite her not taking much care of the dog and not liking that fact being pointed out to her
- I could tie her with some length of chain to a portion of the yard, in the shade, but that doesn't really work long term because she owns the yard and gotta go free at some point and she will then attack the patio screen again.
- Dog resistant mesh doesn't fit our "cage", too thick, and besides if she didn't punch thru it, she'd pop it off the frame instead. She is determined.
- Area zapping would not be great as she needs to come thru that area to get in the house, if she gets scared of it, she might not want to come in at all.
- behavior mod : Probably the best option, but.... how ? we both work and she's on her own *all day*, not sure a session every night would suffice, and how many more screens would die in the process of her learning, thereby endangering the dog's life and my blood pressure at the same time... (sarcasm, OK?)

I'm at a loss, both financially ($$$ lattice) and out of ideas. I have a feeling I'm gonna get an earful from dog people now... (be kind, she was forced on me, and she's quite happy, not mistreated at all ;-) Yet ;-)

Typed a long reply and it disappeared. I hate that and will never redo one.

Get an invisible fence.

Although the long reply was nice enough, it boiled down to you should not have a dog.

Labs are smart dogs.
Catch her in the act and discipline her.
Might take a couple of times, but she will get the point.

Wake up! Do the humane thing, find a loving home for the dog. Minimally!

Can you take a photo of whatever screen door lattice you're talking about? I have a cheap sliding screen door my dog has knocked off the rollers many times. Your post got me thinking there's something sturdier.

^this...and Zeke is not a dog lover. He's just smart.

Now my .02
Don't be offended, but you don't have a dog problem, you have a YOU problem. Then again, be offended. It's irresponsible owners that flood the world with damaged pets. Your dog only wants one thing, LOVE. You give it love, you get love in return. You give it disgust, you'll get disgust in return. If you put that dog on a chain, you should be ashamed of yourself. It's repulsive to think that.

Take her on walks, give her a bath, sit with her, build a friendship with her. If you can't do that, get her a good home that will.

Be a man, do the right thing without hatred or attitude. Small minded men kick dogs. I know you said sarcasm, but I'm not buying it.

I also challenge you to show your wife this thread. Your dog should get much better treatment.

And I think you're smart, too. You're just frustrated and taking it out on the wrong thing.

dog guy so..
after 8 yrs...
you complain about lack of effort on her part..

it's a Lab..a true people dog..
they need /want to be with their family...
you folks should not have him..
find him a home..
he knows you don't like him...

you could perhaps use one of those magnetic curtains..
but please don't..
find him a home...

BTW.. lose the kids & wife..
in time they will annoy you as well..


Rika

Priceless. No matter what I wanted to say, it didn't top that.

I knew I was exposing myself to this, I used way too much sarcasm, and don doesn't believe me and thinks I'm a dog kicker. Sheesh... That's how I write, can't help it... Now since I don't like green font and people take things at the first degree (not you Zeke, everyone), I should restate...

1) You are correct. I should not have a dog. I did not want a dog. It's my wife's dog and we are friendly to each other (me and the dog), no more. Still are.

2) I never mistreated her nor will I ever, but I am out of patience as far as the damage goes. And my wife should not have a dog either because she's not walking her often enough.

3)As the generic "you're evil" posts, it's amazing how dog lovers will jump on you without bothering to *read* your post... I said specifically that I did not want to chain her. I give lots of abuse to a coworker who crates his dogs all day long - hey, his patio is fine ! Nor do I wanna do anything mean to her... I'm just tired of the damage and when I came home and saw my w/e's work reduced to a pile of broken mesh/plastic/metal, I did wanna kick her - for a second, in my head anyway - but it's not like I'm chasing her down and actually doing it. I was frustrated. Sue me...oops, there I go with the sarcasm again.

>Catch her in the act and discipline her.

That's impossible, we're at work. And on week ends, she is either inside with us, or knows better than to do this in front of us, she's smart enough ;-) She'll do it when we're gone and she's bored I guess...

I guess I need sturdier material... It was a plastic lattice (wood rots in a week here) bolted onto the aluminum cage, and extra corner tabs where she likes to punch thru. I could not have broken the plastic if I tried, bend it maybe... Yet she managed to, no sweat...

I've taken the abuse, which you should save for real dog kickers thank you very much (I will concede sarcasm is bad idea when it comes to dogs and religion - note to self), now how about some solutions please ;-)

Brilliant. As usual.

Dogs are pack animals. She is part of your family, but you've rejected her. Ten thousand years of instinct is telling her she has failed her family. It's sad. Give her a chance. With a new pack.

Not totally accurate. For 8y she stayed inside the screened area and went as she pleased through the open door. We just decided to repossess that area so that's a change for her, no doubt.

Is that sarcasm too ? ;-) So you can't read mine for what it is, but that's fine ? ;-)

I see you've edited your OP.

This thread is riddled with solutions. Just not the type you want.

You're trying to treat the symptoms, not the cause.

Love, affection, time, walks, walks, walks, real quality time with her, dog park visits, an actual dog training course for you and her. You know, dog stuff that dog owners do.

Now go back and take a look at the last line of my other post.

Dogs like to chew. Did she chew that down, or rip it down? Do you give her things to chew on during the day or just leave her.

Basic dog training is $109 for 6 weeks at Petsmart.

I had a dog for 10 years....my wife's. He was an ornamental dog. Didn't play, hunt, work or anything else. I missed him when he was gone. I really wasn't a dog person but missed him when he was gone. *I* picked out a new one (a lab mix) and have really bonded...they are very smart and loyal when you spend time with them. I got a second dog a couple of weeks ago. I've become a dog person, they are interesting creatures.

Which is it? You or both you and wife?

Then don't be so thin-skinned about getting grief. You knew it coming in.

An easy solution would be to just get a dog door. He will learn to use it in a few minutes provided you have a place to install it. Problem solved. But as others have said, the dog just wants to come in and be with his family. At least the door will save you from replacing the screen.

when I see/or perceive animal abuse..
I bite..
while your not beating him..
you may as well be..
you come home going WTF..
he spends his days and night waiting for some interaction..
barking WTF..


you came for help..
which is more than many..
& I appreciate you asking & not just dumping him..

find him a home..
he's a senior now..
he should enjoy his final yrs...

my Jack had owners like yourself..
after dog-sitting / as they simply would have left him ...
I handed him 2 bills & simply kept him...
he sleep'd at my side last night..
and we walked this morning before work..
like we do every day 2x...EVERY DAY!

Rika

From my experience with our lab - now deceased 1.5 years ago, I must admit I am enjoying my dog holiday. I am a dog lover but in the time we had Sally this is what she did in her 14 years, mostly in the first seven.
- chewed through 2 seat belts in the back of the Dodge Caravan because she did not like being caged up in a vehicle.
- dug many holes in the yard much to my wife's consternation.
- scratched screen on back door because she wanted in. Replaced screen.
I used to put her in a kennel in the house if we were gone for a few hours and it was cold outside otherwise she could roam around the back yard.
I made a commitment to keep Sally till she passed on. She was a great dog but likely would not have another as it might outlive me.
If you cannot handle all the damage and you don't take her for lots of exercise then give it to a more loving/tolerant family.

I'd say that the above given is accurate.

Dogs are very much creatures of habit. For 8 years, her habit has been to peer inside the house which made her feel like part of the pack - at least she was in sight of her people. Without that stimulus, she is reverting to a seperation anxiety behavior wherein she chews/climbs/claws whatever she has to do to get back into visual contact with her pack.

When people have the day alone, we work on our cars, maybe clean the house, or curl up with a good book. A dog spends the entire day wondering where YOU are. Anything that distracts them from that anxiety (chewing, digging, barking, etc) are all fair game. I'm not really a fan of leaving a dog alone all day while I'm at work, it' against their nature as they are definately not solitary creatures.

A few days a week in doggy day care might help her. Give her a sense of belonging during the day while you are gone. Back at the house, your dog needs to relearn some behavior. She has been allowed to (and has a NEED) to stare into the house. We've got a dog that has a real issue with that. Though constant correction over a period of several months and about 50 gallons through a spray squirter helped with the worst symptoms, she would still periodically stare in the window and whine/moan. We put window coverings over the windows (french doors) and that stopped that problem. This might be a first step. Give back the patio, but block the visibility into the house. Perhaps when the visual stimulation becomes a no-go for her, she may be more apt to drop that behavior - but be warned, if you don't give her something to do, she'll find another outlet, like digging, barking, etc. Think "re-direct." Don't displace one bad habit with another bad habit.

You've admitted to not being a dog person. No problem, alot of people are not dog people. But the bad news is that I'm not sure your wife is a dog person either. In that case, let the dog go to someone who IS a dog person. You said this dog is great with kids, maybe her best home is a new one with a pack of kids and a swimming pool - good times!! An 8 year old lab that is good with kids can be very easily rehomed.

Not trying to be critical, just something to think about. Sometimes the best choice for the dog at this point in your life/your wife's life is another home.

angela

I know.. I should have known better than to use sarcasm on a dog thread. Maybe it'd be OK if it was a pitbull ? (oh crap, here I go again). What can I say, it's no fun to be called a dog kicker when in fact I've never touched the dog, you said you did not believe me, which is the polite way of calling me a liar... but that's fine, I suppose I had it coming. I should just have asked "how do you keep a dog out of a screened room", I'm cursed with sarcasm.

Yes I changed a verb tense on my OP and rephrased to match. I'm looking for advice, not abuse, 99% identical. You can re-read it and still get offended I guess ;-)

Doggy door ? well that's just the point, we don't want her in that area anymore... We let her through when she comes in, but not sitting there all day. It' humid here, labs shed hair like crazy, add mildew, rubbing on the walls/patio/furniture and french doors, and in a month you got a cesspit out there. We cleaned it all, repainted walls and doors, cleaned everything and replaced furniture with new... We'd like to use it now - yes, WE, both of us did not enjoy doing all that work adn throwing away the pillows. Without mosquitoes from the dog sized hole in the mesh, or residual dog smell from fallen dog hair and humidity mixing together.

I was hoping for a miracle mesh/lattice solution...

Now that was a helpful post, thanks !!!

Oh, yes on digging too.. I understand she is bored during the day, but what can I do ??? I fill up the holes, that, I don't mind doing...
I thought initially she could not see the mesh, I don't know how dogs see... and once she popped it, she kinds used it like a doggy door... Hence the lattice. It's not a proper fence but I figured if she saw an obstruction and it resisted casual bumping, we'd be OK. I guessed wrong... I can see how escalation on fencing is not gonna resolve anything... So it looks like I either have to give her up (not gonna lie, it would not bother me or the kids - apparently they aren't interested - but it would bother my wife a lot), or let her into the house (more hair)... I'm also cursed with a good nose and not too fond of dog smell, even when clean, so that would imply a bath every 3-4 days. Dunno... Anyway, good stuff Angela thank you for the perspective.

Greg..
just do the right thing for yourself & dog..
you mentioned a possible dog family..
your wife is just waiting for you to be the bad guy..
so be it..
not like anyone going too miss him..

folks should cry when passes..
not do the smurf dance & high fives

Rika

Feeling just a bit unconscious? You have company...WolfeMacleod cleared the way for you:
.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/690980-great-i-live-thief.html

Do you have the wrong type of dog? I know you said you're not a dog person but what if you had a smaller, inside dog that didn't shed? Just think it through, maybe speak to the family. Find a family for your current dog, research smaller dogs for inside ( mini Schnauzer would be worth a look, or a Basenji ).

Wife gets her dog fix, patio gets reclaimed, kids may dig it too, you keep your wits and who knows, maybe you get a kick out of it as well.

Labs are people dogs so, they want to be near their people and when they are not they tend to get in trouble. This is bad for non-dog people who want independence from their canine companion (oxymoron?).

I've had labs all my life and couldn't imagine not having my friend next to me where ever I am in the house. When I leave her outside she digs a hole in the same spot. My solution is to not leave her outside. :)

Labs are great dogs, very intelligent and easy to train. You may consider consulting a professional to see if you can get some help. It will bring you closer to the dog if it helps and that works for all involved. The other side of that option is that it will help you realize this isn't for you and you can find the dog a new happy home.

You may need a heart to heart with the wife tough, that's always fun...

Holy Crap, people. Stop trying to make him into a dog person. As per his own words, his wife & kids are NOT dog people either.
THE END.

We had a yellow lab that liked to lean on our screen doors so we put a metal screen door guard from the hardware store to stop her from fall through. That might help.

Your family invited this dog into your life. Either share your life fully with her, or find someone that will. I bear no ill will to people that are not dog folks -> they just should not have dogs.

BTW, you mentioned:

That shouldn't even cross your mind. How would you like to be chained up all day?

Get a cat. It won't give a **** about you either.

Sheesh. There's a lot of hostility here....

This nailed it.............separation anxiety. Labs are notorious for it.

"MR SNUGGLES HATES YOU!" and he told me to tell you this:



theres this thang called a freeking SHOCK COLLAR!


level one zap=mellow "hmm i am screwing up" aka strike 1 1st step upon OBSERVED bad dawgie behavior.

level two zap= "wow i am screwing up bad" aka strike 2 2nd step upon OBSERVED bad dawggie behavior.

LEVEL 3 ZAP= "HOLY SHEEET I AM FOOKING UP SO BAD AND I AM AFEARED AND I WILL BE A GOOD LIL DAWGGIE OR MY HUEVOS OR OVARIES WILL SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST RIGHT HERE AND NOW AND WHY AM I 4 FEET OFF THE GROUND KIND OF SHOCK!

my lab was chewing on hoses. A LOT! and it was 5 times a day. it was comical until ya look at 100ft quality hoses cost.


well since we smarter than the avg bear.........we sought WISE MEN! and the dawggie wise man gave me a SHOCK COLLAR that he uses on his springer spaniels duck dawggies. he is MR BIRD HUNTER MR DUCKS UNLIMITED AKC LINEAGE ON EVERYONE OF HIS DAWGS! and he knew his poo:


so.............i set up my hide in laundry room with a 6 pak(natch) and a chair, and watched my lab after installing shock collar attack my hose for the zillionth time.


had control on one(1). saw dawg start chewing on hose, dropped my beer, and pressed "LEVEL 1 ZAP" and dog stopped. hahahahhhahahaha it worked.


stayed out in laundry room. about 15 minutes latter, damn dawg attacked hose. dropped my beer, pressed LEVEL 2 ZAP, dawg howled and backed off.


went and drank rest of 6 pak and came back..................gawd damn dawg was chewing on hose again.


dropped beer, pressed LEVEL 3 (yer feeked) and watched that dawg howl like it got hit by a freight train and LEVITATE 4 FREEKING FEET OFF THE GROUND! and run like a mofo.



and ya know what? that damn lab if i even touched a hose went into the next county. not EVAR AGAIN DID IT CHEW A HOSE!


cost : i borrowed shock collar or buy at cabelas.

(1) 6 pak.

my time.


too simple huh? end of poor dawggie behavior class.



its how ya train champion bird dawgs and it works. same as for rattlesnake training here. place non venomous snake on ground, dawg comes close, ZAP THE DAWG and the next time dawg sees snake.....................hes in the next county!

dog folks are like that.
ex-gf would stop along the street if she saw a dog being mistreated - administer a severe tongue lashing to the owner. it was always a sight to behold - surprised she didn't ever get slapped around.

I agree, members here seem to not get the message - this family sees the dog as a commodity and not a Being. OP needs to let the dog go to "friendly family".

Hey, just my 2cents. Haven't had a dog scene I was a kid. Would have one now if there was no maintenance beyond exercise. Back to my point you ever watch that Dog Whisper guy. Fascinates the heck out of me watching him fix problem dogs. Yeah, man find a good professional dog person to fix things.

ok folks..
lets give G a break..
I am..
as he points out..
it's really not the dog...
it's the keepers..

and before you all put those collars on your dog..
put it on yourself or kids..
then as ODDy likes to say and do...
crank it up..
these collars are like guns..
without training...
dogs get hurt & ruined..

BTW it's not a shock collar...
its a corrective collar...

I have no solution, but i do have a question.

If she is only doing this when you aren't home, who is in the house that is new and exciting and she just has to meet?

I'm a dog guy, but my dogs are dumb. Must be a reflection of the owner.

You could also consider crate training her. I never really felt that was a good option myself until my current lab. We rescued her a few years ago from a local shelter and a friend gave us a crate she had. We knew we would not want to be leaving her lose in the house and after speaking with a lot of folks we tried it.

Actually, when I say 'tried it' I simply put it in the house and left the door open with a comfy blanket for a cushion.

She started sleeping and taking naps in there on her own. She may have been crate trained before. As it stands now though she prefers being put in her crate when we need her 'contained' more than she would like being outside for hours. She doesn't often spend more than a few hours in there at a time but there are occasions where she will spend the day in her crate.

I love labs...my last old girl had a 14 year run before I had to put her down. I AM a dog person, and I guarantee that I would modify this behavior without resorting to shocks, etc. but I've always had the "gift'. That said, there is no way in hell that I would make an older dog (she's not there yet, but soon will be) stay outside in the Fl heat...it's simply time to find a new home for this one if you can imo. That's just my .02 and I don't mean to pile on...the "dog pile" :)

ps: One of my best buddies had a black lab when I lived in Jax. When he got married, his wife banished her to the back yard :(. About the age of your dog, the wifey came around, and she enjoyed her later years inside. They all don't chew, have seperation anxiety, etc...they are absolutely a product of their masters. If you can't do this...both your family and the dog deserve better....good luck!

ps: Mikester replied while I was typing. Nuthin' wrong with crating a dog at all (I only do while mine are small puppies)...heck, they sleep all day anyways :)

Options:

Give the dog away.

Let the dog stay where it used to live and clean the space and the dog more often.

Let the dog into the house, where it will actually be part of the family.

Get another dog, so yours has a companion, since your family isn't filling that need.

Give away the dog.

JR

PS: Bonus points are available if you can figure out what I think you should do.

angela had the best advice i have read so far.

think of it this way you kicked the dog out of his 8yr home. but you didnt properly dog proof it too. wimpy latis and screening will not hold a lab at bay.

you problably should have done some training too before you made the change that the pup had a new area during the day that he was to stay

Crate training works, and dogs don't really mind crates. They won't poop in a confined space where they live, but you have to do the right thing by the dog and take it out when it needs to go. It'll take more time with a mature dog.

Labs are very high energy/drive dogs-not the choice for an ambivalent family, but you have the dog.

You really need an honesty check-do you REALLY want the dog, or is it just you can't accept the failure of letting it go... no guilt if the dog goes to a loving home, and a lab is easy to place. I mean, seriously, if you don't want the constant companionship, why have the dog? That's not a judgement on you, just a fact...too many people in this situation "refuse to fail" when everyone would be happier by moving on. Like a bad marriage...