Who is responsible for which pipes in a condo?

[Rick Lee]

I've had some pipe issues in my condo rental in VA and I can't get the HOA's prop. mgr. to return my calls. Today my neighbor (owner/landlord) called to say there's a leak in his drywall in a wall that borders my unit. He said it's right below the automatic fire sprinkler and it's possible his tenant hit it while moving in the other day. My tenant said his master bath's bathtub faucet is leaking when he has the shower on and the shower head's pressure is getting weak. He sent me a photo of it with the faucet cover pulled forward and it really looks like it's just a bad seal well forward of the wall and would be an easy fix. This tenant couldn't change a lightbulb on his own. The soonest my handyman can get there is tomorrow night.

My understanding is that I am responsible for exposed pipes in the airspace inside my unit. For example, the pipes in the cabinet underneath the kitchen sink and the exposed pipes coming from the hot water heater closet. But the HOA is respsonsible for pipes inside the drywall and those running between units. Is this correct? I don't have a copy of the CCRs with me to look this up and, again, I can't get the prop. mgr. to call me back.

The neighbor wants to call a plumber today and I'm sure that's gonna cost $$ on a Sunday. If it's found to be coming from my unit, who pays? The HOA or me?

[Paul_Heery]

It will vary from association to association. The only way to know is to check the docs that you signed.

[Zeke]

Let him call.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Let him call.

Yup, a lot cheaper than water damage if the leak gets worse.

[Rick Lee]

Neighbor just emailed me that his tenant said it leaks a lot worse when my tenant has the shower running and this just started yesterday. The bath faucet has to be a good 7' away from the wall and probably 4-5' above where this leak in the neighbor's wall is showing. I have no idea if the HOA mgt. co. will handle this and don't want to start running up bills if they will cover it, but not reimburse me for it. No idea how this stuff works, there's no emergency or after hours number for the HOA mgt. co. and their prop. mgr. is bad about returning calls.

[Zeke]

I think I know now why I'll never buy or live in a condo. 7' + 5 more from the leak sounds like it could only be a drain. Does that make sense to you? Is this neighbor below the shower floor level? I missed where he was exactly, only that a sprinkler might have been hit.

It won't likely by a leaky sprinkler. Something else is going on. You need your papers.

[Rick Lee]

I just need to see what this leak looks like. I don't know if the neighbor's sprinkler is mounted on the wall or comes down from the ceiling. Seems to me the water would have to travel a very strange path to get that far. His sprinkler is a little below my bathroom drain, but on the opposite side of the tub and I suspect much farther back in the house than my master bath is. I think my own lower level ceiling has a sprinkler that probably runs off the same line as his and it's not directly below my bathroom.

My tenant just called and said there's no way anything connected to the shower could be leaking where the neighbor's drywall is wet. He says it has to be the neighbor's own sprinkler line. But then this guy couldn't change a light bulb on his own, so his "professional" opinion is suspect. I still think whatever it is has to be on the HOA, since it's definitely coming from a common line well within the walls and not an exposed pipe in either unit. I'll be working the phones first thing in the morning.

[RANDY P]

I would guess this goes under the HOA master insurance policy.

It's part of the structure.

[Zeke]

Not many sprinklers mounted on walls. Under a short overhang is the only place for a wall mount. Not to say the pipe isn't there. Still don't think it would be a sprinkler. The system is monitored.

[Rick Lee]

HOA prop. mgr. finally called me back, said to pound sand. He said all pipes are proprietary to each unit and thus not considered common area. The only exception would be if it really were a sprinkler leak, but that is highly unlikely.

Spoke with USAA today about a potential liability claim by the neighbor. They said he'd be responsible for any damage to his unit caused by any water from anyone's unit UNLESS it were due to negligence. Since I just learned of this yesterday and started calling folks within minutes, I don't think I can be found negligent. Obviously, I don't want to make an enemy of this neighbor and he is a businessman. So he should understand. But I expect he's gonna be pretty PO'ed about having to pay for damage caused by water coming from my unit. If I were to reimburse him as a gentleman kind of thing, I fear that would be admitting liability. USAA asked for a copy of the CCRs and said they'd be the bad guy and tell the neighbor to pound sand if he made a claim they found to be unwarranted. What a mess.

[Scooter]

Rick,

Don't take the manager's word as the absolute truth (I wouldn't take the insurance claim adjuster's word either, for that matter). Read your CCR's and check for yourself.

[Rick Lee]

Of course, I'll be poring over the CCRs myself, but am pretty slammed at the moment and USAA is offering to do it for me. Seems like they'll go to bat with whatever leverage I have, even if no claim is filed and I know it will be like pulling teeth if I DIY this with the HOA.

[Zeke]

Sounds to me like a No Fault kind of system. And, if covered, the ins cos will settle it amongst themselves.

Someone needs to open up a wall the size of a dime and insert a boroscope type of camera.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I think I know now why I'll never buy or live in a condo. 7' + 5 more from the leak sounds like it could only be a drain. Does that make sense to you? Is this neighbor below the shower floor level? I missed where he was exactly, only that a sprinkler might have been hit.

It won't likely by a leaky sprinkler. Something else is going on. You need your papers.

I rented 1/2 of a duplex condo for a year once. It was not a horrible experience but it made me realize I never want to own a condo.

[JavaBrewer]

I owned a HOA townhome for 12 years. Once the construction warranty offered by the builder is done the homeowner is on their own. If your leak caused damage to the neighbor then they would claim it on their homeowners ins - unless as stated the damage was due to negligence. I recently had a similar leak addressed by our builder (still under warranty) - leak from shower head behind wall. Fixed in a day with a simple drywall cut and plumbing tweak. If your shower is a tub/shower combo check to make sure the overflow drain is screwed in tight. The drain fitting is pulled tight by the screw and if loose will allow water to leak.

[Rick Lee]

My condo was built by Centex and I always thought there was a 10 yr. warranty on such mass building projects. The condo docs have the Centex warranty in there, but there are no dates on anything. I know my unit was completed in 2002, but not exactly when. I will be calling them next, but am not expecting any help. Any chance builders offer goodwill warranties when otherwise covered items pop up just after the warranty expiration?

Also, from the condo docs it appears I am liable for damage to any other unit for water coming from mine. But I'm not sure if this is only if caused by negligence or what constitutes negligence. Does my not calling a plumber last night make me negligent? I already had a handyman scheduled to be there tonight and the problem only seems to happen when my shower is running. So it's something that need attention quickly, but not an emergency.

[Joeaksa]

You should be able to download a copy of the CC&R's from the HOA's website. If not call their main number, get the sect and have her email you a copy.

[ossiblue]

Like Zeke, I originally suspected a drain line because of the distance from the leak and the fact it only happened with the water running. If it was a pressure line, it would leak all the time.

Now, after rereading your post, I think it's your faucet. There may be a leak behind the wall and the water is running along the pipe to where there is something that contacts your neighbors wall. This would also account for the decrease in water pressure from the shower head. Have that faucet repaired immediately and see what happens to the leak on the neighbors wall.

[Rick Lee]

UPDATE

Contractor called about 90 min. ago, said it was the tub spout, he fixed it, it was nothing and he was "95% sure" that was the cause of the leak in the neighbor's ceiling. He then said the toilet in that bathroom had been running constantly and he had the stuff to repair it in his truck. He said he was surprised I hadn't gotten a letter from the HOA, as he estimated the commode usage to be in the neighborhood of 1000 gal. per day. Wow! But the HOA handles the water bill and the leak wasn't going anywhere but down the toilet, so no damage and the HOA hasn't said anything. Total bill so far $165.

Then he went to check the drywall damage in the neighbor's unit, said it was very minor, would require light sanding, patching and painting - $75. Problem is he can't get to it for another 2-3 wks.

So I called the neighbor/owner, with whom I have a very good relationship and really, really want to keep it that way. He's the only person I still know in the neigborhood and he's very good about keeping me updated on the neighborhood, real estate market, rent market, etc.

USAA said I'm not responsible for his damage. But I'm not gonna make an enemy out of anyone over $75. So I told him to ask his tenant to keep an eye on the drywall, especially if she hears my tenant's shower running and to make sure the leaking has stopped. No point in repairing drywall before making absolute certain the cause of the damage has been fixed. I then said, if the leak is fixed and he can wait until my guy can get to it, I'll take care of it. He seemed satisfied and it looks like we both dodged a big bullet here.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Paul_Heery

It will vary from association to association. The only way to know is to check the docs that you signed.

I'm in the insuarcne business and specialise in Condominiums, hotels and motels. The reply above is more or less a correct answer. It's not the "docs you signed" but the Conodominum Association Docs. Which are the Master Deed and The by- laws. What Paul stated "it varies from association to association" is correct.

In general exposed plumbing is the unit owers responsibility. However, also in general any piece of original equipment is the association responsibility. Also any piece of equipment that is specific to a unit is genraly the unit owners responsibility. However, a main supply line that feeds the building and has pipes branch off to individual units is the associations responsibility.

My advice it's best notiufy the association of the sitiuation immediately. If there is a plumber the association typically uses use them. This way if this problem gets worse the association can't say that's not our plumber you created the problem.