Need some diagnostic help...

[Scott Douglas]

Scott, I really appreciate your help here.
Do you mean apply 12v to pin 2, with the module plugged into the car, I should hear the pump run then?

[Scott R]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

Scott, I really appreciate your help here.
Do you mean apply 12v to pin 2, with the module plugged into the car, I should hear the pump run then?

With the module unplugged I jump 12v into pin #3 the (+12v to pump pin) and listen for the pump.

[Scott Douglas]

Got it. Thanks.

[Scott Douglas]

Got a new module on the way home from work.
Plugged it in, bolted it down. Turned the key and got the same cranking but no start.
I'll try jumping the pin as I still don't hear anything like a pump in the trunk.
I wonder if the pump went south and fried the module???

[Scott Douglas]

I jumped pin 9, which showed 11v with the key on, to pin 3, as you suggested Scott, and it didn't do anything back in the trunk, like emit the sound of a fuel pump running. This was with the key in the 'on' position. It does have a full tank of gas in it (of course) if that is a help. Fuel pump bad?

[Scott R]

Check fuel pressure at the rail, just push the schrader valve in if you don't have a gauge. Lets see if the pump is charging the fuel rail.

[Scott Douglas]

Yup. That there is a Schrader valve, but, for the life of me I can't find one on my fuel rail...




I appreciate the help.
I also have to cut the grass right now but I will check back later.
Can't believe I can't find the valve...

[Scott Douglas]

Update: this is a 3.9l engine it turns out. My mistake I thought it was a 3.8l.

[john70t]

It's either TBI (central throttle body feeding all cylinders which replaces a carburator), or individual intake runners (port injection-there are several kinds).

[rick-l]

Back to square one. Is the check engine light on?

[1990C4S]

Did you ever squirt ether in while you were cranking the engine?

[Scott Douglas]

Thanks for hangin' in there with me on this guys. Got more than frustrated with this yesterday and had to walk away from it.
First, here's a picture of the instrument panel when I turn the key to the 'on' position.

Sorry for the out of focus, I hurried it.
No check engine light. It does say 'Service Engine Soon' though.
I haven't sprayed starting fluid into it yet, but will later this morning when the neighborhood wakes up. I hate making a racket before 10 on Sundays especially.
I did buy a manual, if you can call it that, I wouldn't if I were the publisher as it doesn't even make mention of the 3.9L engine. I think it's a Haynes.
I did attempt to siphon the gas out of the tank. That was a fiasco too as the tubing is so flimsy it won't go down the tank filler turns to reach the gas.
I did give the tank a few whacks with my new rubber BFH that I recently bought at H-F, just to see if I could jar the pump some. No dice. That's when I walked away from it.
I did check the fuse under the hood for the fuel pump circuit. All is good there. Why do they make the owner's manual pics so small you need a magnifying glass to read them?
I will give the starting fluid a try later.
If that doesn't work I'm ready to say 'uncle' and have it towed to a local indy I know to let him deal with changing out the fuel pump (which I'm betting is the cause, based on my Taurus experience).
Hate to say it, but I'm a Chevy guy that only has a Mustang in his garage because that's what his wife wanted after her mini-van driving days were done. As she says, we haven't spent a dime on it since we bought it used 5 yrs ago except for oil and gas. It only has 52k miles on it now so I guess the bean counters did their job right as it seems Detroit iron only lasts 50k miles now and it starts to fall apart, at least that's been my experience with the last 3 of 4 American cars I've owned.
I'll check back later with the results of the starting fluid test.
Thanks.

[kaisen]

Based on your comments, you're in way over your head

It's not a big deal to replace the fuel pump in a 2004 Mustang, and I'd guess that's your issue. You should be able to DIY if you have the fuel line clamp tools and a way to drain and lower the fuel tank. Guys that are good at it can do it in 45 minutes. It will take a DIY most of the day. It might take you all weekend.

Airtex #E2366 ~$85, will have to swap some parts over from your bad pump
Delphi #FE0443 ~$95

Don't forget to buy a new gasket for the fuel filler neck ~$20

Fuel pumps can last two years or two decades depending on care. No use blaming Ford for a nine year old car's pump going bad.

[Scott Douglas]

No offense taken Eric (I really enjoy your posts by the way) but I'm not in over my head here.
I considered myself just above water when I did this:

to fix my Sportomatic diaphragm.
Right now I'm more frustrated than anything with the 'built for assembly line ease' design of fasteners, clips etc as I don't have a ready source for all that kind of stuff.
Dealing with a full tank of gas, at home in my garage isn't that hard, I admit. But in my present state of mind (I've been told my last day at work is the 19th of Oct, after 17 yrs) is not the best for dealing with this and it's something I hadn't thought I'd need to deal with since the car has been good up until now even under my admittedly neglectful care. Our Taurus pump taught me you don't let the tank go below 1/4 full for long as the gas cools the pump. I've treated the Mustang by this rule and here we are, 52k miles in and it needs another one.
Anyway, I put some starting fluid in it and it wants to fire off, so I'm pretty certain the ignition system is OK.
If I had a lift and didn't have to crawl around on hard concrete, this job might appeal to me more to save the money. But right now with the weather promised to be some of the hottest of the summer, I think I'll let the money go and take it to my friend's shop. I'll just consider it redistribution of some of the white collar welfare I've been receiving for the last 12 yrs from my former project.

[kaisen]

Sorry for coming off harsh, but when you referenced the 'Service Engine Soon' light differently than a 'Check Engine Light' and taking a photo of that light illuminated when the key is in the 'on' position but not running led me to believe these newfangled cars may be beyond your current knowledge.

BTW, every car's CEL/SES light is illuminated when the key is in the 'on' position. All the time. It will go off a couple seconds after the car is running. Not running = light is on. So you can only see an indicated problem with the car running. The only way to see if the car's CEL/SES light would stay illuminated or not in a car that doesn't run is to retreive any stored codes with a scan tool. If your fule pump has failed it may show a stored code, or may not.

Checking the fuel pressure at the fuel rail is the way to know for sure. If you don't have access to the gauge or knowledge then you're simply guessing.....educated guesses aren't a bad thing. If you've gone down the checklist and you're left with the fuel pump as the most likely culprit, then replace the pump. Scott has given you great advice with the pump driver, but you can also simply listen for the fuel pump buzzing in the tank for a couple seconds after turning the key to the on position (not attempted start). If you don't hear buzzing, then either the fuel rails are completely pressurized (unlikely) or the fuel pump isn't working.

Did you check the fuel pump inertia cutoff switch I referenced a few posts back? It's like a circuit breaker for the fuel pump if the car is in an accident. Simply press the reset button and it restores power to the pump.

[Scott Douglas]

You're right, these newfangled cars with all their idiot lights are beyond my training, such as it is/was. Taking out a gas tank isn't, under normal circumstances. Life has been anything but 'normal' for the last 45 days.
If I crank the car long enough, all the dash lights go out, but that is only when I crank it for what I consider to be a really long time (+10 secs). I don't like running a starter motor that long. If it hasn't started by then, it probably isn't going to. I don't have a scan tool nor a pressure gauge suitable for checking fuel line pressures.
I did and have checked the inertia switch numerous times, it's good as I've never found it tripped during all this episode.
I appreciate the help offered here as I hate having anyone work on my cars if I don't have too. They never seem to treat them the way I do, or I try to.
Thanks for the part numbers/pricing too. It gives me an idea of what to expect.