Going To College In Canada?

[jyl]

It is getting to be time to think about college . . .

What do folks think about McGill University (Montreal) or University of British Columbia (Vancouver BC)?

The schools I am most familiar with, in terms of breadth and depth of academic program, social life, reputation, and generally what it is like to be a student there, are the UCs. Specifically UCLA and Berkeley. I have some passing familiarity with University of Washington. If you can, how would you compare the two Canadian schools to these?

Oh, yeah, context. This would be for an undergraduate who is talented in/passionate about writing, reading, artsy stuff, also very adept at/intermittently passionate about math and science. French fluent. Probably is not going to enter college on any laser-focused track to a pre-determined end . . . i.e. there'll be some exploring going on - which may be a problem, in schools which require kids to enter in a specific degree program?

[nostatic]

For that type of student, I'd normally say "small liberal arts college." The big schools can be rough on someone who isn't sure what they want to do, especially the UCs which tend to have full programs.

Both McGill and UBC have good reps. My wife is visiting Vancouver right now and she actually was pursued for faculty position at Emily Carr.

[twobone]

Its been almost 25 years since I was at university in Canada. I went to McMaster in Hamilton. In 2006 I completed my MBA part time thru Dalhousie University.

I think you will be very happy with any major Canadian university.

I found McMaster a great school with a healthy balance between academics and social life.

We Canadians are a happy, healthy and reasonably well adjusted bunch, which makes for a good foundation for learning and self-exploration.

I'm no expert in the issues, but you might want to stay away from McGill given all of the student uprising crap related to tuition hikes (bloody whiners). Quebec is in a bit of a turmoil right now and it might be a distraction from studies.

Just some thoughts.

[RWebb]

I agree, and would put both generally near the same ranking with UCLA, not Berkeley.

Ditto on the small, high quality liberal arts college.

You might look at a quality college with a good French exchange program...


Just so you will be prepared... after spending super high tuition bucks, your offspring is likely to then join the PeaceCorps or something, so steel yourself.

[imcarthur]

I can't rate the universities other than I know that both (along with the U of T) are highly rated. You would probably find housing & the cost of living (excluding gas) much lower in Montreal . . . although this will be offset by the expense of the polar clothing necessary to survive a Montreal winter.

Ian

[jyl]

Part of the thought process by me is that I'd like her to go to school outside of the US, to get a different perspective on things.

I know all the jokes about Canada being the "51st State" but I spent 3 years growing up in B.C. and it did feel meaningfully different from growing up in the USA - admittedly I moved from Vancouver directly to that Armpit Of America aka Northern New Jersey (hey, it was then, yes it is nicer now), so might not have been the fairest comparison, and also admittedly some Americans might think the two places she's grown up, Berkeley CA and Portland OR, are already not part of the USA.

Also, she is French fluent, will get her DELF this year, and I would like her to study/live in France at some point in her youth. I am told that in Quebec they speak but a distant variation of the mother tongue, as confirmed by watching many episodes of "Caroline", yet still it is kind of French, eh?

Randy, on cost - I notice that tuition for international at the two Canadian schools actually looks semi-reasonable compared to, say, $53K/yr for out-of-state at UC Berkeley (damn I wish I was still a CA resident - do all those decades of paying tax in California not count for anything?).

Now, I maybe should start a different thread for this, but here goes - what schools would you guys suggest along the lines of "small liberal arts college"?

We have Reed in Portland, but that is out, being too close to home.

And, along the lines of "I should perhaps start another thread about this but let's instead get everything all jumbled up like we always do in PPOT" - what are the merits of and reasons for taking a year off aka gap year. I know people who have done this, while I can't see any particular correlation to later life success etc, I should probably learn more. Why would a kid do that or not do that? If do you it, what is the best way? Does it hurt your college admissions chances, is it better to get accepted at your desired college and then defer admission for a year?

Context, again: this is a kid who is very level-headed and mature, in particular having a high degree of emotional intelligence, and has good study discipline. If she took a gap year, I think she'd spend some of it working, some of it interning (a neighbor has a graphic design/textiles business, she interned there a year ago and they loved her), and some of it traveling (I'd send her off to France where we know some people). Alas I can't send her off to be a ski bum or backpack the John Muir Trail or otherwise live my youthful fantasies, she's not into the same stuff I was into. BTW she has not expressed any desire to take a gap year, probably doesn't even know it is an option, so this is just me trying to get educated.

[RWebb]

Sorbonne? maybe a Jr. year abroad there?

re Quebec-ey talk... I constantly run into this BS esp. witha guy here who does even speak French(!) As a native son of Louisiana, my bias is: I do NOT think we have to shoehorn everyone into the Procrustian bed of std., modern Parisian French. That (further) damages linguistic diversity, which is already dying out. The attempt to destroy Cajun French and Creole French was a big issue in Louisiana decades ago, and they largely did crush those dialects.

Too bad she cannot safely visit North Africa, where the food & culture also has a nice French influence...

Again, any of the top 100 small liberal arts colleges will be great. Maybe there is some French culture at Bowdoin in Maine?

She does sound like a perfect Reedie fit.

[TheMentat]

These Macleans is a Canadian newsmagazine that carries out the most widely read annual rankings of Canadian universities (the 2012 rankings should be out shortly). They consist of an entire magazine, which is summarized here:

Maclean’s 2011 University Rankings – - Macleans On Campus

They break out the "Primarily Undergraduate" schools, which would include your "liberal arts" colleges.

Like any ranking system, they apply subjective weights to various criteria, which may not coincide with your/her preferences... with this in mind, they have this clever tool:

RANKINGS TOOL – - Macleans On Campus

PM me your address if you are interested, and I will try to mail you a copy of the 2012 rankings issue when it comes out.

[jyl]

@Rwebb

There you go too far. If you want to say "ouais" instead of "oui", late at night and among close friends, that is maybe okay. But otherwise, purity must be enforced!

So, Reed is out - what other small liberal arts schools to look at?

She took the PSAT in sophmore H.S. year and did well, so now we have letters and leaflets from well over a hundred colleges, many of whom I have never heard of, and in some cases I suspect the brochure is the best thing about the school. I'm concerned we'll get another deluge this year and, as a family, dissolve into analysis paralysis or get locked in on the big obvious choices which might be wrong for her.

Oh, she prefers an urban school, meaning one with an interesting city around it. "Interesting" doesn't have to mean Sorbonne/Paris or NYU/Manhattan, but ideally the school wouldn't be all there is to the community.

@Mentat

PM sent, thanks!

[TheMentat]

Regarding UBC specifically, I only went to grad school there. It is a fairly large school, tons of research and graduate work. Facilities are great, the city is awesome.

[fastfras]

Personally I'd go to UBC. It's a great school in a fantastic city with a cosmopolitan make up that is hard to find elsewhere. Yes it's a little pricey when one considers living expenses, but the school does offer housing on campus and there are many options to live off campus such as Kits, downtown etc. There is also the advantage of being a short drive away from Portland - about a six hour I5 drive.

Mc Gill is also a great school, Montreal a very cool city, yet the winter (d'hiver) does take a little while adapting to all that snow. The french language spoken there is somewhat provincial yet a Parisian speaker should have no difficulty adapting to Quebecois.

[RWebb]

re: what other small liberal arts schools to look at?

have her run a search of some sort (online, or using actual solid objects*) & make a list - then winnow out the ones in rural areas (Oberlin) and all the ones in areas you would not want to subject your daughter to (the frozen wastelands of Mini-Soda for example); the South is full of ecto-parasites & frat boys so you can kill off that region too; next rule out schools with weird names even if they are good (Gustavous Adolfus now has 2 strikes)

you will have a shorter list then and it will be something to investigate in detail

make her go visit Reed and talk to them at least (just to see what a trial campus visit is like) - take away her car keys, computer, or boyfriend if she refuses

once she (you) have a smaller list, actual campus visits are in order - most people decide based on "bricks & mortar" (pretty grounds & campus) - do not make that mistake

my general rule is do not go where they want you; go where they just will barely let you in & you then have to struggle to keep up - better education that way

getting into an honors college can insulate a student from the "big U" problems - does UBC have one?

the top, top (spendy, spendy) schools will always provide a better undergraduate liberal arts experience - big U's are like factories

also, do not forget the Seven Sisters - Scarfmore, etc.



* called "books"

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by jyl

So, Reed is out - what other small liberal arts schools to look at?

What part of the country?

[teenerted1]

can't get any more liberal arts than where my sister and her husband met 20yrs ago.
St. John’s College


he is looking to get a tutorship there as soon as his doctorate is finished

[notfarnow]

couple thoughts on Montreal (having lived there for 3 years)

- Beautiful city, great people, and rents are shockingly reasonable.Living there is cheap in general, food, entertainment, transportation. It's a great city to be a poor student and live WELL.

- The winter isn't so bad once you get used to it. Bundle up and enjoy.

- Language issues are not really an issue in Montreal. My dad has lived there for 20+ years and doesn't speak a word of french. My brother lives there too, and speaks french every day. The vast majority don't care what language you speak, or if you speak it well.

[steve185]

My 2 cents would be not to even consider Montreal, good chance student protests could ruin your school year.
Halifax has some great schools, Dal, St Marys, Kings t name three. It's a great city, good place for a young person to live. Winters are mild, lots of culture etc.
One of the best smaller Universities is Mount Allison in Sackville New Brunswick.
Good luck where ever you go.
Steve

[GWN7]

U of Winnipeg. Small uni in the center of the city that they just added a whole bunch of new facilitys to. The Peg has the second largest French speaking population in Canada (and it's more like Parisian French). Down side is it gets cold here in the winter. I mean real cold......-50C some days.

The University Of Winnipeg

[Brian 162]

It's warmer and the snowboarding is better in B.C.

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by Brian 162

It's warmer and the snowboarding is better in B.C.

But the French atmosphere would be absent. Good for brushing up on your Mandarin, however.

Ian

[imcarthur]

Originally Posted by jyl

what other small liberal arts schools to look at?

Have a look at Acadia in New Brunswick (edit: actually Nova Scotia). It is #2 on that Macleans' list for Undergraduate Schools. My niece went there & absolutely loved it.

Ian