Teach me about espresso
 

I like my coffee the way I like my women... Asian and horny...

Oh wait... not a good analogy.

Let me start again, I make my own coffee, by some standards some people consider me a coffee snob (and a beer snob but that is another thread).

I buy fresh beans (Costa Rican, Honduran, Bolivian, Ethiopian are a few of my favorites) grind them myself, French press at home, drip at work, black... if I am in touch with my feminine side maybe a shot of whole milk in there... that is it.

Sometime when we are out after a good meal I will have one of those espresso drinks.

So I am board and surfing Amazon for espresso machines... everything from $50 to $5000.

So what is a good, reliable, not break the bank ($$$) espresso machine good for just a shot here and there on the weekends?

Ciao!

none of the coffee shops here will recommend anything cheaper than about $200

is that in your monetary bandwidth?


also, are you roasting yourself? you said "fresh beans" - meaning freshly roasted, or green?

green beans keep a long time, but once roasted you need to use them very quickly

Espresso is a very deep rabbit hole you can go down, if you are so inclined. You want a pump driven machine to get a good pull. Thermoblock can be ok, but a proper boiler is better. As you get into more expensive machines, you get a second boiler or thermoblock, so you can pull espresso and steam milk at the same time. I'm personally not a huge fan of the super-automatic machines, since I like to control the steps in the process rather than let a machine do it all. If you don't have a burr grinder that can do a proper, consistent, espresso grind, budget some money for that too. If you can provide a price target, that will help narrow the field of options quite a bit.

Sorry, should have said whole beans...

Roasting you own beans... that is just crazy talk!

$200 is okay... but for something we would only do once or twice a month maybe the money would be better spent on good booze... did I just type that out loud?

I used to suggest the Rancilio Silvia, but it has gotten pricey in the last few years, so now I would suggest the Gaggia Classic.

coffeegeek.com is a good source for ratings and reviews.

Edit: if you want to keep it under $200, don't bother. Buy an aeropress or a hario dripper.

Got one of these http://www.nespresso-us.com/item_detail.cfm?product_ID=3&id=item_ID and one of these http://www.nespresso-us.com/item_detail.cfm?product_ID=21&id=item_ID and never looked back.

Make sure to take the magnetized spring frother thing out when you are done.....don't leave it sitting in the frother.

I heard the patent is going to end soon on the capsules opening up to an even better market and hopefully reducing the price.

Something like this Gaggia will have proper components inside, but save some money with a plastic body and is currently on sale for $199.

http://www.wholelattelove.com/Gaggia/gaggia_evo_black.cfm

Having a machine at home, means that I drink a good bit more espresso than I did before. Once you get the hang of it, it is pretty easy and doesn't take a lot of time. What kind of grinder do you have right now?

Keurig's capsule patent is already expired. They are pretty much hosed. I think starbucks' new capsule machine is going to destroy them.

Start with this, then decide if you want to spend 10x more.

AeroPress® | AEROBIE® High Performance Sport Toys

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353530741.jpg

Agree w the Gaggia classic recommendation, but the most important thing is the GRINDER. A Ranciillio Rocky is about the acceptable minimum.

If you have $1500 to spend, you can't go wrong with a Rocky and a Breville Dual Boiler. I've been playing with espresso for 10 yrs, and it is the best bang for buck machine I've ever seen..

I'm a geek that roasts, but that's just because I'm a cheap bastard.

Scott, one or two cups on weekends is not very much.

_

Just for giggles... how do the De'Longhi machines stack up against the Gaggia?

Honestly I will need to hit the lotto to support this habit!

I've used a spice grinder and multiple cheap ($40-120) espresso machines. I smoke - and even I can tell the difference between pre-ground and fresh ground coffee...

Espresso tastes exactly the same out of any of them to me; only difference is the longevity of the units. But the current $40 Mr Coffee design has lasted the longest (4 years of daily use, no issues).

Perfectly happy with that. But then I only buy Peet's coffee - because using junk coffee has more far more effect on taste than the machine it's made in, I think.

Some folks insist you can only use a $2000 commercial espresso machine. I've worked multiple places that had one in the kitchen - and I really cant' tell any difference - much less $1960 worth of difference.

So I just feel sorry for those folks for the cruel trick life has played on them :) in much the same way as I felt sorry for an ex-workmate who felt compelled to spend $3500 on a turntable (didn't include base or cartridge) because he could hear the difference ...

I would third the Gaggia brand. If you end up liking the sport, you'll want something
that's consistent and will last. Getting all the variables right to pull a good shot is
incredibly frustrating, so at a minimum you should get good equipment that will
pump at the same pressure and temperature.

I started with a Classic and Mazzer baby grinder - you'll read that the grinder is
nearly as important as the machine.

Then I moved upmarket significantly because it is a slippery slope - to the Expobar
dual boiler. Fantastic machine.

Everything bought from Whole Latte Love.

Finding The Best Espresso Machine Under 200 Dollars - What To Look For

- providing this link does not reflect on any opinions of the linker; linkee(s) agree to hold harmless linker; no warranty express or implied; we have not formed a contract and I am not your attorney

If my hair ain't wiggling it ain't good enuff....

using a spice grinder on the beans, i would expect any espresso machine ($40 or $2000) to product the same product.

for the OP, imo the keys to good espresso are a decent machine, a good grinder and fresh beans. if you're only going to have a shot or two every other weekend, try something like the nespresso machine. it won't produce shots nearly like what you can make with beans and a grinder, but you won't have to worry about having fresh beans on hand all the time.

i probably average a double or quad on the way in to work and one or two more doubles during the day. doesn't mean i know how to make great espresso, but i drink it in quantity. :)

I'm happy enough with this thing. And I'm REALLY fussy about my coffee. You want one with a big boiler and lots of watts. Vibiemme Domobar Super

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1353557083.jpg

Lot of good wisdom here. I started down this rabbit hole years ago with a $25 thermoblock machine. I upgraded to a $200 single boiler pump machine later and loved it, then built a dual-boiler PID-controlled monster. Then it was a big HX machine, and now I use an Alex Duetto.

Lessons learned:

- Don't skimp on the grinder. A good quality burr grinder will make consistent coffee, while a cheaper one will consistently make you unhappy. Getting the grind right really does matter.

- Roasting your own beans is neither challenging nor expensive, and it has a HUGE impact on the flavor of your coffee. Look up "dog bowl heat gun" coffee roasting; I use an old Kitchenaid mixer instead of a dog bowl, but it's the same thing.

- After you've got good beans and a consistent grind, temperature control is the next most important thing. But if you're not grinding well, or the beans aren't fresh (within about 7-10days of roast), you might not even notice.


So practical recommendations? The Aeropress may not be junk, but it's really hard to make good coffee with it. Budget, say, $150 for an introductory machine with a pump and a thermoblock or small boiler. If you're a Pelican (e.g. DIY-inclined), don't be afraid to install a PID controller; they're usually cheap and it's a great way to get better temperature control out of a cheap machine. Don't worry about the E-61 grouphead at this point, but try to get one that's the same size (avoid the little bitty cutesy ones).

Unless you decide to get serious, you may be ok getting pre-ground coffee at your local shop, as long as you get small doses (like a day or two's worth of coffee, not a month). Sooner rather than later, though, you should watch the auctions for used grinders (Mazzer Mini is your friend!). Budget about $200 for a grinder. Mine's lasted for, I don't know, 12 years now, I think, so it's really a long term investment.

Good luck. :)

Dan

Guess I'm too lazy. We bought a Nespresso machine a few years ago. Uses those pre-made/measured canisters. Been great for us. Has a milk frother if you're so inclined too.

Like a couple of others I roast my own beans. I am using a small Fresh Roast SR300, but I really think I had better results with the stainless bowl and heat gun method. The roast was more consistent and the "hulls" blew out of the bowl. For a grinder I use a Baratza Virtuoso which is the basic entry level and for espresso I have a Rancilio Silvia. For just a cup of coffee
I use an Aeropress and like it a lot. Like all hobbies, there doesn't seem to be an upper limit on the amount you can spend.

This may be unique to this group. Read the threads here: We're serious about everything from watches to firearms, and we like to research thoroughly, understand what's worth getting, then get it. :)

I mean, are normal people like this?

No.

I have a super automatic machine. It makes very good coffee Americano and cappucino with little effort, but the espresso is so-so. If you want good coffee without a lot of fuss, it's great. If you're a coffee hobbyist it's not for you. The price has come down 40% since I got mine 3 years ago.

Saeco Incanto Deluxe Automatic Espresso Machine

We recently went the bean-to-cup route with this little Swiss beauty:

Jura ENA9
http://www.za.jura.com/ena9_330x250_black_large.jpg

Effortless coffee at the touch of a button. I have messed around with a grinder and manual espresso machines in the past. Too much trouble with inconsistent results. This little Jura makes cup after cup of perfection.

It's "I like my coffee the same way I like my women - black, strong and hot enough to burn the hair offa my chest".

"I get my coffee the way I get my women - cold and bitter."

I got a Jura (swiss) over 2 years ago, I just looked at the counter it has brewed 2401 coffee cups! (and brewing one as we speak)
Still working like new.. Definitely worth buying a good one that lasts..

you !#@$%^&*()_'s motivated me to buy a refurbed espresso machine dang it!

it will replace the one I spent over $20 on, about 10 years ago

The most common mistake people make is to treat the grinder as an accessory to the espresso machine, when in fact it's the other way around. Invest in an espresso-capable burr grinder and decent espresso can be had with most espresso machines.

Lots of good advise here; I've read many good things about Gaggia.
My path was like this- Farberware $40 machine got me through school, Francis Francis X1 took me to the next level $500 and I loved it for 10 years, currently I have a PID Rancillio Silvia and my first real grinder-Macap M4 totaling ~$1400. This setup is capable of making very, very good coffee with a good bit of tweaking and charm.

i drink coffee. plain and simple.

if i crave an espresso..i hire the job out to the local barista. i like ILLY espresso. there is a coffee shop in little italy that makes a great one.

Or:

http://www.coffee-a-roma.com.au/shop...ads/Stella.jpg

I am the same. I use espresso grind in a 4 cup Melitta cone dripper. Strong, fast & it doesn't use up the entire kitchen counter with coffee apparatus! With my coffee habit, multiple daily espressos are too short & too acidic.

Blue Bottle in SF has the 'bestest' espresso that I have tasted in recent memory.

Ian

Unfortunately the price of Illy can be a bit prohibitive.

_

what is the optimal temperature for espresso?

I thought it was 190 oF, but the fancy Cuisinart machine I spent nearly $30 on is putting out water at 150 oF.

The brewed temp in the cup needs to be 160-170; so the temp of the water hitting the coffee needs to usually be in the low 200s, but there's no absolutes because it has a lot to do with the pressure of the water through the coffee and how fine the grind is and the density of the puck after it has been tamped, etc.

For my machine to get a nice 165 or 170 degree shot I need to have the water right at boiling, which is about 202 here, and I need to 'shoot a blank' BWAHAHAHAHA to get the plastic water lines and the brew group preheated a little bit. Water boiling at around 200 is one of the difficulties of getting a perfect shot at altitude.

Just put a variac on that thing and get it hotter, man!

Stovetop? I have a TopMoka I picked up in Italy. These are what the Italians use at home. About $25 -$30. I really like it. They are called Moka pots. Not true espresso but very similar. Less pressure.

Check it out.

Larry

I get MY coffee the way I get my women....I go out and buy it. ;)