Value of a 2010 Audi S4

89911 · 11-26-2012, 08:46 AM

Cars for Sale: 2010 Audi S4 Prestige in Pittsburgh, PA 15237: Sedan Details - 334090755 - AutoTrader.com

Any thoughts about what it is worth. Called the guy and he has a new car coming in an the dealer obviously isn't giving him what he wants. Look to be in the low 40's by my estimate. Any thoughts about the car?

Halm · 11-26-2012, 08:55 AM

One of the few new cars we have bought over the years was a 2004 S4. Absolutely wonderful car. We sold it after 2 years (wish we hadn't done so) and took a beating on depreciation. Now, I would love to have one of these S4's and am surprised at how well they seem to be holding value.

IMO, if you could get this in the very low $40's, it would be a good deal, especially with the low miles.

onewhippedpuppy · 11-26-2012, 09:27 AM

Good looking car, have you driven one? I'm curious what the supercharged V6 drives like as compared to the previous V8 model. On the surface the V8 sounds more appealing, but I know the V6 SC got good reviews and gets better MPG.

Regarding value, maybe Eric (kaisen) will chime in. He is the only one that has access to what really constitutes value, i.e. what the cars are selling for at auction. Otherwise I would check the usual valuation services like KBB, NADA, and Edmunds, as well as looking at asking prices online. Average those together and you might get a decent approximation, as each will have their own bias.

craigster59 · craigster59's Garage

A friend at work had the same model. New, price was $52k. He leased for 3 years and his buyout with 42k on the clock was $27k. He traded it for the new RS5. He said he saw a 2011 S4 at Rusnak Pasadena last week, unknown miles for $42k.

kaisen · 11-26-2012, 09:54 AM

It would probably do $40-41K at auction because of the miles

"Normal-mile" examples (45-50K) do $8-10K less than that.
I'd rather start depreciation from $33K than $43K
I'm not a fan of paying a huge premium for miles

There are more 2011's out there for sale than 2010's due to lease return
Last week in Pennsylvania there was a Black 2011 with 14,550 miles that did $39K wholesale

He can ask whatever he wants. $47,500 is simply too much.

onewhippedpuppy · 11-26-2012, 10:03 AM

So based on Eric's info you can take a reasonable guess at what the dealer is likely offering him, as their offer will be largely based on auction price for a similar car. Offer him a bit more than that and see what happens.

This thread prompted me to go look at the Audi website. You do realize that a new S4 starts at $47,600 MSRP, right? I'm sure there aren't many out there with zero options, but if you want to spend nearly new-car money, why not buy a new one? I had a similar situation recently when F150 shopping for my wife, we found that a used 2011 would actually cost us nearly the same as a brand new 2012. Used for the price of new doesn't make much sense.

89911 · 11-26-2012, 10:11 AM

Like most imports, the options are what drive the price up. The stereo option alone is around $5K. This is the "Prestige" (no not the movie, but I liked that one

) When I build my own cars, I have no problem getting these cars into the mid $60's. This guy is getting a dose of dealer reality. He has a new S7 coming it so I'm sure he is trying to get everything he can. I just need to find out what the dealer is offering and then go a little higher.

kaisen · 11-26-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89911

I just need to find out what the dealer is offering and then go a little higher.

Remember that there's 7% PA/Allegheny sales tax, and he only pays on the difference when he trades it in. So if they're giving him $40K (to make the math easy), then he's getting a $2,800 sales tax credit to trade. In other words he needs to sell it for more than $42,800 to make a penny selling it himself. So I doubt he'd take less than $43K.

And warranty is running out in just 13 months, regardless of miles, where a new 2013 would be 48 months.
We've discussed it before, but I can't fathom why you don't just lease a new one.

The lease interest rate through Audi financial is 2.52%
With 10% down, payments would be way less than $500 per month for 36 months, then you're not on the hook for resale value. Which could (and typically does) suck on an Audi.

gprsh924 · 11-26-2012, 11:01 AM

Lease it. You change daily drivers every few years anyway.

If you are stuck on buying, work with Eric to get a 2011 through the auction. It will be your best value for your dollar.

Tonight I am picking up from the auction the 2012 Mazda3 that Eric brokered for me last week.

89911 · 11-26-2012, 11:05 AM

Yes, you make too much sense.

I guess what sprung this is that I was at the BMW dealer and I have about 0% interest in anything they have now. I am all over the place with another car, from CTS-V to Audi to Lexus (no actually I went on their website and saw nothing). The lease thing feels to me like renting but that's my issue. I will investigate further.

kaisen · 11-26-2012, 11:10 AM

Cars depreciate and you lose money. New or used. They're not assets.

Buy what appreciates, lease or rent what depreciates. At least when the math supports it.

I'm sure you can write more off through your practice leasing than owning

And when have you kept a car more than 3-4 years?

onewhippedpuppy · 11-26-2012, 11:19 AM

If you are buying new or nearly new cars every 2-3 years and financing them each time, then a lease probably makes sense. You are making a monthly payment, you're never going to actually own the car, why not reduce the monthly payment via leasing? If you never actually pay off the car then technically you're just renting it from the bank, it's never really yours.

If you plan on keeping it 10 years or can pay cash then it's a different story. No payments is nice, but my Audi is also 10 years old.

Ronbo · 11-26-2012, 11:20 AM

My wife drives a 2011 S4 in similar configuration, only with the 6-speed manual. It's just turned 25K miles and thus far has been flawless. As far as the comparison with the older V8 S4, the supercharged V6 is at least as fast with significantly better fuel consumption.

kaisen · 11-26-2012, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

If you are buying new or nearly new cars every 2-3 years and financing them each time, then a lease probably makes sense. You are making a monthly payment, you're never going to actually own the car, why not reduce the monthly payment via leasing? If you never actually pay off the car then technically you're just renting it from the bank, it's never really yours.

If you plan on keeping it 10 years or can pay cash then it's a different story. No payments is nice, but my Audi is also 10 years old.

Leasing at 2.52% is better than paying cash. Even if you buy the lease out at the end and keep it forever.

89911 · 05:03 PM

Here's one at my local MB dealer. Not for the faint hearted.

Cars for Sale: 2011 Audi S4 Prestige in Wexford, PA 15090: Sedan Details - 334133012 - AutoTrader.com

onewhippedpuppy · 11-27-2012, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaisen

Leasing at 2.52% is better than paying cash. Even if you buy the lease out at the end and keep it forever.

How does that work? I'm asking honestly, not being facetious. Cash is 0%, and if you are keeping it for "forever" resale value is a non-issue. I suppose there's the possibility that you could otherwise invest your cash for greater than 2.5% but that's certainly not guaranteed.

matt911 · 11-27-2012, 04:42 AM

I went through a similar purchase decision recently. After a lengthy decision process I ended up with a poor man's S4. I purchased a new 2012 Volvo S60 R-Design. I purchased it new for $42k or similar to what a 2-3 year old S4 sells for. I'm sure the Audi has many advantages but it better be for the additional $10k+ it sells for new. S4's are fairly common where I live so it was also refreshing to be a little different. Just giving you another option to make it more confusing for you. And if you've read any reviews about the Volvo, yes, the seats are that good.

onewhippedpuppy · 11-27-2012, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 89911

Here's one at my local MB dealer. Not for the faint hearted.

Cars for Sale: 2011 Audi S4 Prestige in Wexford, PA 15090: Sedan Details - 334133012 - AutoTrader.com

1 year newer, less miles, retail priced, and still $4k less. Looks better in white too, just my opinion.

Halm · 11-27-2012, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

How does that work? I'm asking honestly, not being facetious. Cash is 0%, and if you are keeping it for "forever" resale value is a non-issue. I suppose there's the possibility that you could otherwise invest your cash for greater than 2.5% but that's certainly not guaranteed.

Great question. I have never really understood this too.

kaisen · 11-27-2012, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

How does that work? I'm asking honestly, not being facetious. Cash is 0%, and if you are keeping it for "forever" resale value is a non-issue. I suppose there's the possibility that you could otherwise invest your cash for greater than 2.5% but that's certainly not guaranteed.

Cash is never 0%, there is always an opportunity cost having your money tied up in a depreciating "asset" like a car. You'd earn something having that money elsewhere. Have a mortgage? I'm sure it's more than 2.5%. Put it there, to start.

There are two variables that make a lease more attractive than buying with cash

1) Sales tax calculation. When you buy a car, you are taxed on the full purchase price. When you lease a car, you are taxed on the lease amount. And it's typically due as it accrues, each month. So instead of paying 100% all up front, you pay less than 50% over 3 years, monthly, with no interest. If you end up buying the car at the end of the lease, you'll pay tax on the remaining balance, but you deferred that obligation for 3 years (or whatever the term). If you don't buy the car at the end, you saved thousands in sales tax. In the case of a $60K car and a 7% sales tax rate, this is a significant factor. More than interest!

2) Guaranteed future value. A lease is based on a residual...a guaranteed floor of what it will be worth at the end of the lease. If it's worth less than that, give it back and you didn't pay for the real cost of depreciation. If it's worth more than that, you have right of first refusal to buy your car for less than market value. So you can win, but you can't lose. It can save you thousands of dollars over owning the car and being at the whim of the market when it's time to sell. Want to keep your car "forever"? Then buy another just like yours for market value and you still saved the money. Or team up with your dealer or a guy like me and buy your exact car from the auction when the lease company disposes of it. I've done that a few times, saving one guy almost $7000 from the stated residual value.

In addition, there can also be an advantage in how a leased vehicle can affect income tax calculation for business use, which 89911 may benefit from. I've had doctors lease $100K cars, writing the lease in both their practice/business name and their personal name, buying tens of thousands of extra miles so the payment is high and the residual very low, then personally buying out the lease at the end for tens of thousands less than market value. The business wrote off 100% of the lease -- right off the top line. No worries of depreciating it too much an realizing a gain later.

It's just a financial instrument. Leases get a bad rep from those who didn't understand all the variables.