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Garrett hit it on the head... They are really pretty decent rides.....

2007+ for the Burban, Tahoe, or Yukon are pretty nice, though I still prefer the Armada. Sequoia is nice but the newer bodystyle is still pretty pricey. All but the new bodystyle Durango are simply obsolete.

Sequoia is to expensive, I prefer the GM to the Nissan. If there is one thing that America can build, it's a truck.

I owned an Armada for two years and 50k, even at 110k it ran and drove like new. Interior quality was as good or better than the new style Tahoe and blew away the old style. It also had a number of thoughtful touches that the GM didn't, like a fold flat 3rd row and single lever 2nd row seat flip so easy my kids could do it. The GM required two hands even for my wife to flip the seat for 3rd row access. Little stuff, but it's the little things that add up when you do them daily. Had we purchased another SUV instead of a truck it would have been a newer Armada, that's how much we liked ours.

I was a tad brief in my first response. Here is more info on the Land Rover LR3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedracing944 (Post 7189754)

Need-to-haves include
1) Haul 2 adults, 3 kids, 1 collie and weekends worth of gear for trips to my mother-in-laws 3 hours away.

No problem. 3 independently folding seats on the middle row & 2 more independently folding seats in the back give you enough options to make this work. Also, the rear 2 seats are plenty big enough for adults.

2) Good 4 Wheel drive as we live on a dead end country road which drifts quite badly, up to 6 foot deep of snow. Frequent snow falls of 8"- 10" at a time. Approximately 100 inches of snow per winter.

Traction control has a 'snow' setting, plus you have adjustable ride height. Of course, it's a lot to do with tyres, but the LR even has a mechanism that puts the brakes on on one side to help you round corners. Mine goes great in the snow/ice.

3) Good towing capacity to handle a larger 24' - 26' foot cruising sailboat in our near future, Approximately 6000 - 7000 lbs.

LR3 tows very, very well. But don't buy the factory hitch mount, get the cheaper (& better) version from Rovers North or Atlantic British.

4) The best fuel economy, or better yet, best fuel cost dollar per mile as possible given the above constraints. Diesel has been less appealing lately due to price differential between gasoline and diesel as well as the upcharge for the vehicle purchase. I have looked at Mercedes Benz ML320 CDI and Grand Cherokee diesels in the past.

The LR uses a Jag-sourced 4.4 V8. It runs on premium but gets 20mpg hwy and 15 city. They make a great diesel unit but it's not available in the US. :mad:

5) Good reliability with 95% of the maintenance able to be carried out either by myself or my neighbor.

Never thought I would say this, but my Land Rover has been great for reliability. Maintenance (oil changes, etc.) are easy, with the exception of having to remove 2 pieces of armour from underneath.

6) Used

Good selection of used rigs, both SE & HSE.

7) Purchase price under $20,000

That might be tough. I would recommend an '08 or newer, that puts you in the mid-$20's.

8) My wife must like it as she will be driving it 80% of the time

Women (my wife & mothr-in-law included, as my father-in-law has one too) love driving the LR3. Especially the adjustable height suspension, visibility & split tail gate.

Nice-to-haves include
1) Seating for greater than 5 in case one of our children wants to bring at least 1 friend or if our mother-in-law rides with us.

Seating for 7 full size adults.

2) Combined unloaded fuel economy greater than 17 MPG (gas). Less concerned with towing economy.

See above.

3) Rugged and able to handle the daily abuse that family haulers normally see with children.

The LR3 has a quality feel about it, and ours has stood up very well to big dogs, nieces & nephew, etc.

4) 2006-2007 vintage

As above, '06 was better than '05 (which was the first year) but '08 is better yet.

5) Less than 75,000 miles, 60,000 miles is more ideal

Should be no problem.

6) Major components, engine, transmission, able to last at least until 250K miles.

Very few engine or transmission failures reported.

7) Good rust resistance

Not sure how it compares but so far so good.

Speedy:)

LR3 has a lot of other cool stuff. 3 sunroofs, heated front & rear seats, 300hp, great styling, lots of places to put stuff & cup holders, and it's very smooth & quiet. Add an A-bar & some lights, press the 'up' button & you're ready for anything!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...ps833009da.jpg

Oh, and don't get an FJ (I had one). I simply won't fit enough of your needs.

PM me if you want to talk.

Paul.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RWebb (Post 7190449)

what about dealers, parts, service in Evansville, Wisconsin?

Honda Pilot fits your capacity issues; not sure if it will get in & out on the road you describe with the snowfall amts. you give

There are dealers for all the above SUV options located in Madison, WI where I work. It is also only 35 miles from my house. In Evansville, town of 5000 people, there are only 2 small dealerships, Ford and Chevy. I have only had to pay for service for less than 1/2 dozen times in my life thus far. I have been able to completely service every vehicle in my fleet including engine rebuilds, suspension, etc. That is one reason I keep my vehicles for so long as I take the time to understand them and what it takes to repair them.

This is BIG Chevy Tahoe and Suburban country out here as the Janesville GM assembly plant where they "were" put together is only 15 miles from my house. You can't swing a dead cat around this next of the woods without hitting a GM SUV. With that said they still command a huge premium, as much and if not more than my suggested SUVs.

Speedy:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85eurocarrera (Post 7189765)

used yukon or tahoe.
quad cab p.u.

Another pickup truck is out of the question due to must-have rule #8. My wife does not want a truck as an everyday driver as she want an enclosed hatch area. No truck bed even with a topper. If the opinion on rule 8 was positive for a pickup truck I would probably be looking at a Texas owned early 2000's Dodge Cummins 2500 4X4, crew cab and 6 speed manual transmission. I LOVE the Cummins! A used Ford F150 ecoboost was also considered early on.

Speedy:)

I have a hard fiberglass tonneau cover and a bedrug in the back of our F150, it's our family car and my wife's daily driver. It's bigger and as secure as any SUV trunk.

Sorry dude, but if towing 7000 lbs is a legit requirement you need to be looking at a 1/2 ton truck or SUV. No way I would want to tow 7000 lb and 26 ft in a lightweight mid sized SUV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 7189766)

Speedy, you made some great criteria then seem to have ignored it with your suggestions. Very rational criteria, then some much more fun (except Trailblazer) suggestions. Maybe a left brain vs right brain conflict?:D

Seriously though, you'll be lucky to even fit three kids into everything but the Trailblazer/9-7X. Going from a minivan to a midsized SUV (like your list above) is going to royally suck. Everything but the Chevy is going to require specialized maintenance, and much more so than the average appliance type car. None of the above are really safe for towing of a 7000 lb boat, my guess is you'll exceed the tow rating on at least a few of your choices. Of the bunch, the Trailblazer/9-7X is the only one that offers a 3rd row seat. But sadly the Trailblazer is a steaming pile of crap that you couldn't pay me to drive. By the way, I don't think any of your choices meet your MPG target. None of those are particularly efficient SUVs.

Seating for 5+, towing 7000 lb and 26', good ground clearance, reliable and easy to repair - you need a domestic or Japanese crew cab truck or full-sized SUV. It will be a hit to your MPG, but I can't think of anything that meets your criteria and MPG requirement. SUV: Chevy Tahoe or Suburban, GMC Yukon, Ford Expedition, Dodge Durango, Toyota Sequoia, Nissan Armada. Trucks would be the Dodge Ram, Chevy Silverado, GMC Sierra, Nissan Titan, Ford F150, Toyota Tundra. On the upside, you can find all of the above for under $20k, though the Toyotas will be higher mileage examples.

I'm actually in a really similar spot, I needed a vehicle to haul our three kids (2, 5, 8) with at least one spare seat, all of their stuff (don't underestimate this one), haul our 4000-ish lb boat, handle the occasional lumber run, and offer 4x4. I ended up with a 2012 F150 XLT SuperCrew 4x4 with the 5.0 V8. MPG is average at 14/19, but it offers a huge backseat for the kiddos, a front bench that gives us one extra seat, we covered the bed with a tonneau cover so it's now a huge trunk, and easily tows our boat. We went with a truck over an SUV because of the bed hauling ability, my house is a work in progress and I hated hauling materials in the back of an SUV. It has worked out very, very well. Our previous vehicle was a Nissan Armada, which was also a fantastic and super reliable SUV and worth considering if you go that route.

There is some left verses right brain struggle going on. If I listed all the boring cars I have owned in my life you would simply cry.

I will have to take a closer look at the Toyota Sequoia and Nissan Armada. They were not on my radar. The Dodge Durango is a no go as I have 3 friends who own them and each one has failed the rust test early on. 1 of the Dodges is in rough mechanical shape even with low mileage.

Speedy:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian in VA (Post 7189767)

I'm biased but... Love my LR3
Great seating for 5 plus a dog and stuff or pull up the back seats for 7
Drives thru snow with no problems, could drive up the side of a mountain if you want
Tows
I get about 17 mpg
As far as reliability....well, seem to either be good (mine) or terrible so check the service records and you'd be ok

The interior is a nice place to be, great high seating position & visibility, looks good, sturdy as hell.

My wife and I noticed a LR2 at the library today which peaked my wife's interest. If we go this route I will look diligently at the service records.

I googled YouTube videos last night such as;
Land Rover LR3 River Crossing
Land Rover LR3 Snow
Land Rover LR3 Mud

I came away quite impressed. It reminded my of a more civilized Unimog. Yes I already threw out the suggestion that she buy a quad cab Unimog but I don't think she was too interested. :) I even showed her Vonsmogs website.

Speedy:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by PorscheGAL (Post 7189803)

Have you considered a Cadillac Escalade?
It covers all your needs:

Tows 8000 lbs,
7 passenger
Gas mileage at 19 hwy 12 city
Easy to get parts

As a woman, I would drive it.

These fall outside our price range.

Speedy:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by UconnTim97 (Post 7189889)

We have a 2008 Envoy Denali with 75K miles. Similar to the Trailblazer and Saab.

It appears to meet most of your requirements. This is my wife's DD. It has been trouble free and we have only done the routine maintenance, oil changes, etc. We just changed the brakes for the first time. Prior to this, Mary thought brakes were a yearly requirement, so I was very impressed with that.

The 5.3L V8 has plenty of torque and has been trouble free so far. We are getting about 17 mpg combined. The truck sees a lot of city driving which doesn't help the mileage.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about these trucks.

I spoke to a friend who has a '06 with the 4.2L I6 and he was quite impressed with it giving the same feedback as you have. Reliable, powerful, good fuel economy and good local service. I was leaning a little more towards the 9-7X as they seem to be a bit cheaper due to the misconception by the mass public that many parts for the 9-7 are bespoke and Saab will not be around in the future. I got an excellent deal on my Oldsmobile when I bought it years back for the same reason. Oldsmobile was done and the dealership couldn't move the van. I was able to negotiate about $2000 lower on the Oldsmobile than an equivalent Chevy Venture, from a different dealership, the day before.

Speedy:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy (Post 7191171)

When I compare the towing heavy weights of my suggested SUVs, Cayenne and LR3, the vehicle weights and towing capacity is as much, if not greater than the equivalent era Ford F150. I would need the 5.4L V8 and 3.55:1 axle ratio in order to surpass the Cayenne or the LR3 in towing capacity. Now with that said I have only towed with my current '93 F150 which has an awesome DMI spring loaded bumper hitch. It did great with an old loaded steel 2 horse trailer with changing room and a loaded single car hauler.

The ML350 appears to be way to light duty.

Speedy:)

My vote is for Dodge Journey.
I have the R/T and it has everything you want and more at a lower cost

The awd and electronics is what they got from Mercedez so its pretty goods, also has a 3rd row so its perfect when you have more

When this one dies I'll get another one

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedracing944 (Post 7191255)

I found up to 8700 lbs rating in a SuperCrew 5.4L equipped F150. Also a longer wheelbase, which helps keep the tail from wagging the dog. Just a guess, but I suspect a truck or larger SUV would also be better equipped for towing with features such as a class 3/4 hitch, transmission cooler, trailer brake controller, etc.

Go drive a Trailblazer. That was enough for me.

I understand the left brain vs right brain debate. But what is your farmer mechanic going to do when the air suspension malfunctions in your LR3? Or when the body control ECU has issues on the Cayenne? Will he have the company proprietary software to properly diagnose and repair the problem? If he can't fix it, do you have a Porsche or Land Rover specialist nearby to help? For $20k you will get an older model of any premium make, that probably has at least 60-80k on it. You will eventually have issues, and somebody will need to be equipped to fix them.

As mentioned above, take a look at Toyotas with 3rd row seats (the 4runner is an excellent example) and also more domestics. Those cars you listed may last to 250k, but it will be $$$.

Then report back with a list to click. You could not get me to click on any of your choices - Sorry.

G

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedracing944 (Post 7191223)

Like I said, I have an '06 trailblazer with right under 140k on it. Starting to have issues with it. The tranny is on its last leg, which seems to be universal at about 130k across my companies fleet of them. The mileage is ok without a trailer, but not great, and with an even small trailer( sub 2k) it dismal. The ride quality isn't that great, and the interior isn't holding up any to well either. It's not terrible, but not great either...

The larger GM vehicles seem decent, but the trailblazer line shares too many isuzu roots, and it shows. Seriously if you are going to be towing much at all, avoid it like the plague

Yeah Speedy I love the thing. The commercials are true: looks good parked around the bimmers at dinner, but the next day I load it up with yard waste or bikes and a kayak.
There is something else, if I'm getting what your left side / right side issue is. LR is iconic, has on-line support, not totally unlike the Pcars. Check out disco3.co.uk. Happy hunting
B

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedracing944 (Post 7189754)

Our aged family hauler, 2000 Oldsmobile Silhouette with 260K miles, is in need of replacement as the engine is showing low oil pressure and a slight rod knock. At this point we are not willing to do an engine rebuild or swap. In addition we have an '93 Ford F-150 we use to haul a light weight 20' sailboat, make runs to the home improvement store and get us out of our dead end country road during winter time. The F150 maybe gets driven 1000 miles per year but has 185K miles with a recent engine rebuild about 2000 miles ago. The truck runs fine but is slowly rusting away. I have a 2002 Mazda Protege with 152K miles which I use as my commuter vehicle. We tend to keep our vehicles for a long time and use them until they are used up so ease of maintenance and reliability is important. I either repair them myself or hire the work out to my fairly talented farm neighbor. None of my cars ever see a dealership.

We are considering selling both the minivan and truck and purchasing a single replacement vehicle for my wife to use as a stay-at-home mother and to handle the larger chores such as towing, home improvement and small farm.

Need-to-haves include
1) Haul 2 adults, 3 kids, 1 collie and weekends worth of gear for trips to my mother-in-laws 3 hours away.
2) Good 4 Wheel drive as we live on a dead end country road which drifts quite badly, up to 6 foot deep of snow. Frequent snow falls of 8"- 10" at a time. Approximately 100 inches of snow per winter.
3) Good towing capacity to handle a larger 24' - 26' foot cruising sailboat in our near future, Approximately 6000 - 7000 lbs.
4) The best fuel economy, or better yet, best fuel cost dollar per mile as possible given the above constraints. Diesel has been less appealing lately due to price differential between gasoline and diesel as well as the upcharge for the vehicle purchase. I have looked at Mercedes Benz ML320 CDI and Grand Cherokee diesels in the past.
5) Good reliability with 95% of the maintenance able to be carried out either by myself or my neighbor.
6) Used
7) Purchase price under $20,000
8) My wife must like it as she will be driving it 80% of the time

Nice-to-haves include
1) Seating great than 5 incase one of our children wants to bring at least 1 friend or if our mother-in-law rides with us.
2) Combined unloaded fuel economy greater than 17 MPG (gas). Less concerned with towing economy.
3) Rugged and able to handle the daily abuse that family haulers normally see with children.
4) 2006-2007 vintage
5) Less than 75,000 miles, 60,000 miles is more ideal
6) Major components, engine, transmission, able to last at least until 250K miles.
7) Good rust resistance

Given the above criteria, what would you recommend from the below choices.
BMW X5
Porsche Cayenne S
Land Rover LR3
Chevy Trailblazer
Saab 9-7X (same as the Trailblazer)
Mercedes Benz ML350

Speedy:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedracing944 (Post 7191223)

If you're serious about staying under $20K, no older than 2006, and under 75K miles:

2006 BMW X5 4.4i might get there, a 2007 wouldn't

2006 Cayenne S might get there for the $$$, no such thing as a 2007

Saab 9.7x ....the 5.3i and 6.0L Aero would be awesome tow rigs. I would avoid the 4.2L I6

LR LR3...as Paul points out, it's the same motor as the X5, has a third row seat, but is cheaper than the X5 because people are afraid of the repair/maint costs and it's not the top-of-the-line (Range would be) where the X5 is

It sounds like you've ruled out the ML?

Go check out this 2006 Saab 9.7x 5.3i in Waukesha. $10K with 77K miles:
## 2006 Saab 9-7X Sport Utility 5.3i

Have you considered a 2006-2010 Ford Explorer V8? Just bought one for a Pelican (MRM)

Have you considered a Touareg? Jeep Grand Cherokee or Commander with the 5.7L Hemi V8?

Why not a 2006 Tahoe/Yukon? They'd be way under your ceiling....mechanically no different than a 2007-up. Even a 2006 6.0L Yukon Denali or Cad Escalade would meet the criteria. I've owned a few, my current Suburban has 250K miles on the original drivetrain.

Why not a 2006 Lincoln Navigator? The 2006s had the awesome ZF 6 speed auto, independent rear suspension with fold-flat third row, lots of toys, and cheap to fix. They'd be in your price range. I owned one until 105K miles and I loved it. Towed a lot of trailers with it. I'd buy one again. In fact, of all the vehicles mentioned here, this would be the #1 recommendation I'd have for you.