Took my son to K1 Speed last night - disappointed in the track crew (longish)

[mikester]

Last night, as a reward for my son I took him to K1 Speed down the road in Torrance.

I'm completely disappointed in the performance of their track crew - something that could be pretty safe they turned into what appeared to me to be nearly a free for all worse than what I usually see at the local Mulligans amusement park (where the cars are just as fast if not faster).

I realize that I signed a liability release form which basically absolves them from injuries my son has received but what I'm not certain of is if that liability waiver also absolves them from the liability of running their track in an unsafe manner.

I took him there as a reward for some really awesome stuff he and I have been doing together with his local cub scout pack and the other pack that operates in town. He helped me put on the two pinewood derbies for them and it was really great.

He had never done K1 speed before but he has driven go carts before in a few places though not karts of this speed. We've done some double carts that were gas and fast or faster but he wasn't driving.

I briefed him myself on track safety prior to the race, explained the flags and went over the track with him. I told him to take it easy starting out and if anyone wanted past him - let them pass. Learn the track, build speed as you learn the track.

Well, Torrance has a spot where everyone hits the wall and of course, he nailed in the first few laps. Nailed it hard enough to where the track crew needed to go out and pull his car from the barrier. When they did this though they didn't slow the other cars and before they could get there he was slammed by two other cars.

Completely preventable and in my eyes totally negligent.

First - they had track crew on the track so those guys are now in a situation where the cars racing could hit them. I'm sure that would likely be a track policy violation and if the employee were injured I'm certain HE could sue the hell out of them. Second, it's the most common incident on the track and it is so easily preventable by slowing the other cars or stopping them. In fact, It happens all the time as it has happened while I've been racing. My liability waiver does indicate that I release them in the event that they are negligent - In retrospect that is completely ridiculous and based on this experience I'm not sure I could ever take him there again.

So, he wanted to go again. At first after the race he was shook up pretty bad. But when I finished my race (I was in the next race and he seemed okay so I raced) he was raring to go again. Not wanting this one incident to color the reward so badly I agreed to one more race for the night. This one went much better for him but during that race another kid put themselves into the wall pretty hard and had to again be extracted. This time they did stop the cars, all but one. A kid who is obviously a regular and very good. So all the other cars are stopped but this kid who is weaving in and out of the stopped cars like they are traffic cones. Finally he gets to the walled car where the track crew is working and stops. I figure he's been stopped but then he starts going again and doesn't stop until he is again half way around the track. Now I figure he's been stopped by remote.

At this point - I'm just livid and I'm so angry that I am completely ready to blow my top. Rather than confront them in that state where I simply would have come off as a lunatic I took my son home. I cooled off and I composed a message to them and sent it.

My intention is to stop by there tomorrow on my way home from my last meeting of the day and discuss what happened with the manager if he is available.

My wife had a Chiropractor appointment today and took my son with her and she believes he has whiplash. I don't doubt it - it was a hard couple of hits. She's recommended suspension from all his sports activities because of it which I guess is probably right. So, no hockey finals this week at least maybe next week as well depending on the checkup on Wednesday.

The kid is understandably upset and he's 8 so he blames me. It is infuriating that it was completely preventable. I suppose it is my own fault - maybe he is just too young for that sort of thing.

[stealthn]

I don't know what K1 Speed down is but it sounds like I would have been as mad as you. I'm glad he's OK to speak of and hope he still had fun and understood the reward. Good on you to wait and compose before sending a note. I would also send a note to the occupational health and safety department that this would fall under as workers on the track with cars going around would be an issue.

Good Luck.

[motion]

Last time I was there I watched a girl hit a barrier head-on. Her helmet flew at least 10 feet. I'm thinking that nobody took the time to make sure it was fastened correctly. The place is operated by a bunch of 18 year olds, so you can't expect too much. Sorry about your kid.

[Tervuren]

Well, I do not think they should be liable - its your kid's driving that put him in the wall first of all. There is inherant danger when driving both on the track and on the street. The track at least means that *most* of the time everyone is going the same way, so you don't have double velocity head on collisions.

Secondly, the manager probably would have a talk with his guys if they weren't doing their job, and you came in and told them. So if you want improvement, go ahead and have a chat.

Thirdly, most young Americans aren't that bright when it comes to work and doing the right thing. It takes a lot hiring/firing for a kart track to end up with a decent crew. I've been a member at a great local place for years, and there have been times that they've had some real dogs working for them. I'd just not race and come back later if those guys were working. If I planned on bringing friends, I'd research the schedule and pick a time with good employees.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Sounds to me like a normal day at the kart track. If you don't want to hit the wall (hard) or potentially be hit (hard) it's probably not an activity you should engage in. There is risk associated with most activities, if you are not willing to accept it then don't participate. My son (also 8) plays basketball, tackle football, and baseball, and any one of those could result in him getting hurt, and hurt much worse than whiplash. It's a calculated risk and one that my wife and I acknowledge.

As for the staff, is that a surprise to you? Did you expect SCCA trained and certified corner workers at the local kart track? While it doesn't make it right, there are very few venues in which you can expect quality service. If they hired professional corner workers the track would be so expensive that you would refuse to take your son. As with most things, you are largely on your own. I would suggest speaking with the track manager about your complaints to hopefully affect positive change, without your feedback they don't know what to fix.

[creaturecat]

sound like a day in the life........of being a kid.

[Schumi]

You explained the flags and the track to him, but did you explain how to use the brakes?

He was the one who went into a wall hard enough to get stuck and need a push out. Did he get pushed into it, or just overdrive the kart into it? If he did it himself, and then got hit afterwards- hey, that's life. You F-up, there are consequences. Yea, he's a kid, but that is why it's good that this is a kart inside and not a big car outside, then, right? It's part of being a kid.

I raced at the Torrance K1 a lot of times, and the crew is your typical indoor kart track crew.


If you want something professional, enroll him in the Jim Hall kart school.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by Schumi

You explained the flags and the track to him, but did you explain how to use the brakes?

He was the one who went into a wall hard enough to get stuck and need a push out. Did he get pushed into it, or just overdrive the kart into it? If he did it himself, and then got hit afterwards- hey, that's life. You F-up, there are consequences. Yea, he's a kid, but that is why it's good that this is a kart inside and not a big car outside, then, right? It's part of being a kid.

I raced at the Torrance K1 a lot of times, and the crew is your typical indoor kart track crew.


If you want something professional, enroll him in the Jim Hall kart school.

Yeah, I explained the car controls to him except for the reverse switch. Yes, he put himself into the wall. He couldn't figure out how to get it into reverse. He wasn't under the barrier or anything. The track crew had to go onto the track to help him get into reverse. In that moment, when the crew had to go onto the track the cars should have been stopped. I have seen that exact procedure too many times to think it is anything but standard operating procedure. I've raced there as well but my kid hasn't. Because of that particular turn on the track - and if you have raced there more than a few times you know exactly which one I mean - if you get into the wall there - odds are you're going to get hit very soon. They should have stopped the cars.

They didn't.

He was hit hard enough by the two cars that hit him to put his car on top of the car that hit him first.

It was so easily preventable and I think I am within my rights to be pissed about it.

This is one of the reasons I usually only go racing with folks I know. Folks who don't think that 'rubbing is racing'. I'm not a pro and I don't want to take pro risks. I want to have a good and safe time. I guess if Mulligan's is safer because they kick people off the track quickly then maybe we should just stick to Mulligan's. They have laser tag and their cars are pretty fast too.

K1 Speed has responded to my feedback email with a 'we are aware of the issue at the Torrance track and will get back to you once we consult with management' message.

The second issue is the fact that the next race - they were doing it right for the most part except for not shutting that wiz kid's car off and allowing him to do whatever he wanted. That race went well otherwise.

[JavaBrewer]

We have been going to the Carlsbad K1 for years and I have seen a few smaller kids leave with whiplash like injury. The electric carts are pretty fast and the track is tight. The issues arise when they mix rookie drivers who have electronically restricted carts with seasoned racers running at full steam. I had one post race 'talk' with a middle aged guy who purposefully speared my sons cart at the end of the straight because he didn't like getting passed by a kid...

Normally thought the track crew has been pretty much on top of bad behavior and keep the entire event pretty tight. I saw a 20'ish girl spin her cart in the turn at the end of the straight and she tried to drive against traffic into the corner entrance...YIKES!!! Luckily the crew was on top of it and killed all the carts before someone got seriously injured or killed.

[911pcars]

Some of you seasoned racers are pretty harsh on an 8 yo kid. A liability waiver was signed, but that doesn't absolve the track from negligence (works the same way when a parking attendant parks your vehicle). Exposing course workers and sitting targets to speeding karts is dangerous and negligent.

I believe the karts at K1 are electric, and if so, the crew has a master control over all vehicles. Sounds like a lack of training - management's issue. Hope your son is okay and quickly recovers. He doesn't need this experience to dampen his enthusiasm for motorsports.

Sherwood

[intakexhaust]

Anybody care to chime in about the race crew libation fest taking out the entire fleet at the old Elkhart family kart center? Rumor has it, there was so much carnage and karts out of commission they shuttered the place. LOL

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by 911pcars

Some of you seasoned racers are pretty harsh on an 8 yo kid. A liability waiver was signed, but that doesn't absolve the track from negligence (works the same way when a parking attendant parks your vehicle). Exposing course workers and sitting targets to speeding karts is dangerous and negligent.

I believe the karts at K1 are electric, and if so, the crew has a master control over all vehicles. Sounds like a lack of training - management's issue. Hope your son is okay and quickly recovers. He doesn't need this experience to dampen his enthusiasm for motorsports.

Sherwood

Initial first reactions of people when something goes wrong - is to either do nothing - or get to the scene of the accident. Running for a computer to shut down karts, then going to the scene is counter intuitive to natural instinct, which is to get to the problem first. Yes, continued training can change this instinct, but its not a natural reaction.

As for employee risk, all they have to do is jump on top of a kart and grab a roll bar if something is incoming, the kart's crash protection will extend to them.(been there, seen that.)

As to whether its a good idea to stop all the karts, will depend on the track length in time. 15 second track with 20 karts, then yeah, 45 second track with 5 karts, no.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

Initial first reactions of people when something goes wrong - is to either do nothing - or get to the scene of the accident. Running for a computer to shut down karts, then going to the scene is counter intuitive to natural instinct, which is to get to the problem first. Yes, continued training can change this instinct, but its not a natural reaction.

As for employee risk, all they have to do is jump on top of a kart and grab a roll bar if something is incoming, the kart's crash protection will extend to them.(been there, seen that.)

As to whether its a good idea to stop all the karts, will depend on the track length in time. 15 second track with 20 karts, then yeah, 45 second track with 5 karts, no.

they don't have to run anywhere to shut the Karts off, they carry a remote around their neck that allows them to do that.

[McLovin]

I've done K1 with my kid at various places in the US.

No way I'd send an 8 year old out with adults. 8 is too young, IMO. The speeds are too high, and there are too many adults, teens, etc. out there. They say no bumping, etc. but that's just not the reality. An 8 year old generally isn't going to be proficient enough to do things like get the kart in reverse quickly and get out of harm's way, or avoid going into the wall on the first few laps, as you found out.

K1 isn't like amusement park karts. Yeah, it's not Formula 1 or anything, but the karts generate plenty of speed, and there are always a lot of aggressive racers out there.

I'd only let an 8 year old do a "juniors only" restricted thing, which I think they have.