Tough break - but give them the benefit of repairing it. Could be something less sinister.

As for HPFP issues, they happen to the 2.0 gas cars too? As in the GTI?

sell it and get that big dodge cummins diesel (a TDI)

Yes......pay an independent to pull the hpfp and inspect the follower, if you catch it before it wears through you're golden, the upgraded follower uses a different material.

there was a tsb on the matter, and they were covering them under warranty.....but.......vw didn't issue an actual recall where you would be notified.

I have also seen where the disintegrated follower got into the timing chain and broke it......
Either way if you have a 2.0 turbo vw this is a very important thing to have checked out before it fails.....

Would this apply to the diesels as well?

Their high pressure pumps aren't great, they have issues with their turbos and exhaust gas systems too.... I know of several new trucks that needed a new turbo or injectors or both before 10k...

I'm not familiar enough with the diesels to say yes or no......

Thanks, Bell - we have two 2.0 (petrol) Turbo VWs in our house (my girl drives a Tiguan 6spd), so this might be worthwhile. Both are under 10k miles, though.

[Edit] Sorry for the hijack, hope the dealer has good news, peppy!

There was a year where they all came with the updated follower.....I believe it's 05 but don't quote me.....I'll have to do some searching, there are a few very informative thread on vw vortex about it all....

Thanks for sharing this! We have a 2010 TDI wagon and it has been great to us. Will go to dealer tomorrow and get more info and tell him this is a know
n/documented problem and we will not pay if it happens to us.....

I did not see any from Canada on the TDI forum, is your diesel maybe of a different quality? Does anyone know if this is taken care of on the 2012-13 models?

I am definitely going to study my warranty document and will also inquire at the stealership at the next service.

How about the DIY on a fuel pump / fuel system replacement? Is it so expensive because of labor or parts or both?

It is concerning that there are 200 documented cases of failure on just that one forum. All of them couldn't have pumped gasoline. (Maybe the repeat failures!? ;) ) If only 10% report on that forum, that means 2000 cars would be affected in North America. What are the sales numbers?

VW sales up 22.4%, best October since 1972

Looks like VW may sell about 300k cars a year. If 1/3 of them are TDI, that's 100k / year. 300k total. This means we are dealing with about a one percent (or on that order) of failure. It could be a lot more, as we do not know how many people would report on that fourm. Not super-alarming, but with the large $$$ at stake it isn't comforting either. Also consider the few miles accumulated as many of these cars are <3 years old.

G

Called the dealership this AM. They have not figured it out yet. They have the VW area representative there today. They did tell me they are unable to get the car to start and will let me know later today.

It is expensive only after it fails as you need to replace the cam//chain/all associated components, the follower itself is pretty cheap.....at least on the gas engines.
The biggest danger is properly bleeding off the pressure of the hpfp, it'll cut fingers off if not done properly....either above 3000 lbs of pressure......

I think you left a 0 off the pressure. The VW HPFP work at over 25,000 psi.

I'm kind of annoyed at this.. I didn't do my research. 6 months ago I traded in a Cayman S (2 kids, no choice) and was going to get a 4 door GTI. Spur of the moment thing, I test drove a Golf TDi at the dealer, and figured that it was smarter to go diesel given my long commute... And apparently I traded a potential RMS/IMS engine explosion for a potential HPFP full fuel system redo ;-( :mad:

Actually it won't matter, I'm gonna trade the car in soon (8000 miles only). I thought I could live with a diesel, and was temporarily impressed with the MPG and torque, but long term, I love driving too much and the car is too dull to drive. It's the most reasonable car I ever bought but I'm starting to hate it, it' s a nose heavy understeering pig - with great torque ! ;-(

Update
 

The dealership called and the car is running fine, they find no fault codes and are unable to reproduce the symptoms. I guess I misunderstood the service manager when he said it would not start.

It was probably nothing, just my wife's imagination.

No, it probably wouldn't start earlier, and now that it does he doesn't want to mess with it. I hate dealerships......

^this

Huh... How much warranty is left on this car? I'd most definitely unload before your warranty is expired. Sounds like a real headache.

$7-$10K for repair seems extreme as well. We replaced a HPFP on a 6.4L Powerstroke diesel pickup for $7K and the body had to be lifted off the truck! Is this the same case with these cars?

I think my wife is going to get rid of this thing. It really sucks because it gets about 45mpg.

From my 2011 warranty booklet. Powertrain warranty:

Soooo - is the fuel pump an internal part of the cylinder head? Don't think so. And look at all the other pumps mentioned, even the water pump ... no FUEL pump mentioned.

The way I am reading the warranty, unless the fuel pump is buried in the cylinder head internally, we are SOL on the powertrain (60k) warrantly covering a fuel pump implosion.

Where is the pump?

G

http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/27...side_angle.jpg

A new car leaving you stranded is an absolute no-no. I'd trade it in as well. One of the reasons, if not THE reason to buy new is to know all systems are new and likelihood of getting stranded is very low. Getting stranded can be very very inconvenient and outright dangerous to your life and health as well.

G

Probably that is why Toyota is number 1 seller. No thrills and the pure satisfaction of nothing going wrong. Ten years ago we tried a Camry and a Jetta. The Jetta was more fun but I talked her into a Camry. No regrets.

Absolutely. If an old cheap car breaks down on me, at least I'm not super surprised. But an expensive new car, especially one that my wife and family rides in? Zero tolerance.

Good lord people!
The VW TDI common rail diesels have millions of miles of service world wide, like the one poster said the HPFP is like a one percent failure rate. 99% have no HPFP problems.
The system works like this, an in tank electric fuel pump pushes fuel to an electric fuel pump which supplies the approx 80psi fuel to the cam belt driven High Pressure Fuel Pump that then ups the pressure to over 25,000 psi. It feeds a common rail that feeds 4 injectors.
The expensive bill is due to all components which have diesel flow thru them have to be replaced! You have to drop/replace the fuel tank, blow out the lines, replace all fuel pumps, open the timing cover and lock down timing, replace and time the HPFP, all fuel lines and injectors, fuel filter and I am sure forgetting some things! Not for the faint of heart!
Why? VW says since the system uses a return fuel system (meaning the diesel fuel is recycled and returned to the tank) the fuel system can become contaminated with metal particles, and when we are talking about the finite clearances of the parts, metal shavings are a no-no.
There is a procedure to check to see if the HPFP is failed, and VW probably wont make that public.
What causes it? Believe it or not, VW says most are caused by gas being pumped into the fuel tank. The older cars you could drain, refill and bleed the system, and off you go. Now the newer systems are forced to be more efficient and clean, so the system has gotten more complex, which can lead to some expensive repairs.
OP, please don't give up yet, the TDI is a great car!

Given the Tacoma frame debacle, and this:

Toyota to hold world's biggest car recall in 16 years - Business on NBCNews.com


And this:

Big Toyota recall over steering, water pump woes - CBS News


and more, I wouldn't hold Toyota on too high a pedestal.

At least they are fixing the problems. See my thread about manufacturing problems that are not addressed.

It's not that the occurrence is too high (1-2% are the latest estimates), but that VW isn't taking proper ownership of the problem. For example, when BMW had HPFP issues it sent a letter to all owners and told them that that particular part and any damage caused by its failure was being given a free extended warrantee. When I asked my VW dealer about the HPFP at all they pretended the phone connection was lost and then wouldn't take my calls.

Babak

That really sucks because it's otherwise one of my favorite new cars. :(
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1359606080.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1359606127.jpg

it is rumored for the 2014 year Vw will drop the 2.5 5 cylinder and replace it with a 1.8 turbo....

I studied the forums some more. Looks like VW is repairing these failures under the powertrain warranty (60k/5years) but does not advertise this. They apparently do this on a case by case basis. I could not find a case where an owner was stuck with the bill at >36k and <60k miles.

While it is stupid to have a pump lubricated by the fuel, which makes its survival depend on the fuel quality, I am really wondering how many failures go back to a family member, girlfriend, boyfriend etc. putting gas in it, then going "oops", noting is only half a gallon, and proceeding to swap over to the diesel hose. This was perfectly fine in the old days

The math of bad fueling is not too crazy. Say 1 out of 100 cars have a HPFP problem. Every car gets filled up at least 30 times a year. That means in 3 years 1 out of 10000 fill ups would have to have an "oops" to end up killing 1% of the pumps. I think that's not unlikely. What do you think?

I always fill up at the cheapest diesel station in the area or on the side of the interstate, so at least I know I am not pumping somewhere where there isn't a lot of throughput. Maybe this helps (along with being the only person pumping fuel) to greatly reduce the likelihood of failure!

We'll find out! So far so good (30k miles around the corner)!

G

It's very believable that people could accidentally be putting gasoline into new TDIs at times. They are being sold to a lot of non-car people who have never owned a diesel, lots of people have multiple cars in the household and that might be the only one that takes diesel fuel. Plus the diesel hose is on the same pump as the gas hoses these days at most stations. All it would take is to be on a phone call while you're fueling-up and bingo!...wrong fuel.

FWIW, traditionally all diesels have had FPs that were lubed by the fuel. That is nothing new. My question is whether a one-time mis-fuel, (putting gas in and driving), could ruin a pump if the gas was diluted in mostly diesel. If it was a strong concentration of gas, the car would die and have to be towed somewhere to be completely drained, at the very least.

1-2% failure rate? Reading this thread made it sound like this was a common problem :rolleyes: 2.0T gas in my '06 A4 now has 190,000 miles on original HP fuel pump. Should I sell? ;)

On a similar note, was reading a Dodge forum regarding the 2004 Hemi engine. Lots of warnings to sell and/or never buy an '04 due to 'cheap Chinese junk rods' used that year that break. Also a problem with the cowl seal that allows moisture to drip on top of the engine and into the cylinders via the intake manifold gasket, causing an eventual catastrophic engine failure. My '04 Durango has been parked outside, winter and summer, since new and has towed a large travel trailer and many cars all over the country. 175,000 miles, no problems. I suppose I should sell this POS too :cool:

Most cars have some variety of "fatal" flaw. Some worse than others, some more common than others. Forums are great for spreading the word but can also tend to exaggerate the problem. I've had five 986/996s because I believe the IMS/RMS to be blown greatly out of proportion, and they are otherwise great cars for a low price. It's all in the risk you are willing to accept, though that's tougher to swallow in a brand new car.

All vehicles have problems. My 98 Chev PU had the HPFP go. The problem was tracked back to a additive in Shell gasoline. Shell offered various reimbursements to solve the problems. The only problem was they never advertised this and only gave people who had a problem 90 days to file a claim. For me they offered $175 towards repairs. The only problem was the pump cost me almost $800 to put in. I quit buying Shell gas after that. Same truck went thru 3 sets of powersteering hoses in it's life with me. Bad design.

My 08 Chev PU had a similar problem which has been identified that the aluminum clamps on the transmission cooler start to leak due to heating cooling cycles. No recall from GM on this yet my local mechanic knows all about it because he has fixed a bunch of them.

Trade it in while it is still on their lot, see how enthusiastic they are taking it in.

Right now our 2010 Jetta TDI with 85k miles on it is at the dealer. On the coldest day - 5 degs F my wife was merging on a highway at 6am. She stalled it. It wouldn't restart. she had to walk to a gas station to make the call to the towing co. We call them ramp trucks or flat beds here:)

I ran the codes and got 3 codes. 2 low fuel rail pressures and one crank sensor code. I had it towed to the dealer. They called and said the motor has no compression. I can't believe the ****** motor blew up pulling away from a stop sign. I can only think of 2 reasons that would happen. Blow timing belt or ingesting water. I asked them about both things and they said the timing belt is fine. They are going to do more investigating.

This is the second time that car has left us stranded. I love VW's but the last 2 Jettas that we have owned have been the biggest most unreliable POS.

I think I am done with VW :mad:

We picked up the TDI this aafternoon, and it is running fine. I am torn about trading the car. We will lose about the same amount of money if we keep it and it does break.

After reading more on the HPFP it seams VW is working with the owners and fixing the cars. The pump costs about $800, and I am pretty sure an independant shop could repair the car for 2 or 3 thousand. Still a lot of money, but not like an engine or transmission money.

I just hate to take a loss on the car.

Let's see: take an absolute, guaranteed bath on a great car vs, the 1/100 chance of taking the same bath on a possible repair and getting the use of the great car the whole time....

And you're torn? I don't know what to say.

And before someone brings up a possibility of a stranded wife, a new Toyota PU truck could leave you stranded. Any car can leave you stranded. Cars get flat tires and fuel pumps fail out of the clear blue sky. That is a really silly line of reasoning for losing thousands on a car unless it happens all the time.

Very true. Though some are more prone to it than others, and there's something to be said for trusting a car. If my wife's car left her stranded more than a few times I would dump it regardless of cost, it is simply not worth the safety risk. Which is why my wife always has the nicer, newer car between the two of us.