Why is it illegal to commit suicide?
 

Disclaimer: I am in no way considering suicide!

But - we all know there are those who become ill and are in great pain and suffering and will never have any significant quality of life in the future.

So why is it illegal for them to commit suicide or be put to sleep by someone else?

As in go to a licensed practitioner and be put to sleep...ala Dr. Kavorkian style.

Doesn't our body belong to us?

Isn't this the argument for allowing abortion?

No one can tell us what to do with our body?

:confused:

I think there is a religious reason for the prohibition. Christianity forbids suicide, as your life belongs to God and not to you - something like that. More parallels to the prohibitions against abortion.

Obviously, we wouldn't want people be free to just walk around, among the public, after committing suicide. Makes sense to me.

I wish it wasn't illegal to kill people. the world would be a better place. Manners would come back. People would respect each other more.
politicians would serve people not themselves.

My uncle died a slow painful death from cancer. He would scream in pain if the care taker rolled him over to change the sheets. He begged for a lethal dose of morphine. He had to suffer for several more months before his heart gave out.

JYL hit it... Stems from that lack of separation of church and state. Christians love imparting their beliefs as laws, and pretending that its for a civil good, not just forcing their beliefs on others.

Christopher Hitchens explains it better than most.

You just made my point.

If religion forbids both abortion and suicide...why is one legal and the other not?

Religion doesn't factor into this - I think it's because those who make the decisions (the people really) are not ready to accept that humans do have a shelf life.

Unlike animals and fetuses, I guess.

If you ask me it should be the other way around.

;)

It's kinda pointless bit of law.

If you succeed they can't arrest you - you're dead.

If you fail you have not broken the law - you have not committed suicide.

I think in most countries it's illegal to attempt to commit suicide - but I have never heard of anyone being charged with the offence. Normally they get them help.

but insurence wont pay out...its all about money...

Dollah dollah bill yo' indeed.

Its like polygamy. If its illegal to have more than one wife, how can you commit it? The first was legal the next ones aren't legal marriages, so how can you commit polygamy?

Social security does pay dependents under 18 until they graduate high school, however.

My father was in the same situation, but, living in Washington state, where there is a "death with dignity" law, he was allowed to end his suffering on his own terms.

It was the most surreal experience of my life. He was lucid to the very end, and took the medicine in one shot. I was never prouder or more in awe. We're talking about 90 capsules of secanol, emptied individually, and mixed in an 8 ounce drink. The entire family was at his side, and we all took a shot of his favorite rum as a chaser before he sat back in his bed, closed his eyes and fell asleep. We watched as my mother held him until his last, dramatic breath, and he was gone.

My mother was absolutely against it, right up to the moment he passed, at which time she immediately flipped, and understood how much it meant to him to leave on his own terms. Anyone who is in this situation should move to a state with similar laws, in my view. It was an experience I'll never forget.

edit: with regard to insurance, Washington state basically requires that a patient has a diagnosis of less than six months to live, to be eligible for the procedure, and the cause of death is listed as whatever the disease was that actually caused the situation, so the insurance is unaffected.

Thank you for sharing that. Frankly, I think its barbarous that this isn't the law of the land for the entire USA.

Somewhat adding insult to injury, isn't it? If you are such a failure that you fail at suicide, then they throw you in jail for it.

Depends on the state. In CA for example they will pick up the tab if the policy is over two years old.

And to me the ability to end one's own life sets us apart from other species. There is a reason it rates increase dramatically with older men. I can't blame them.

G

I completely agree. I was on the fence, I have to admit, but I lived it with him, and he made me a believer. There is a cautionary caveat, however...

The law in Washington requires two declarations by the patient to a physician, separated by a minimum of 15 days. This turned out to be a frustrating period because my father waited until he was admitted to the hospital with severe pain, to initiate the first request, which started the 15 day clock, and he was forced to wait the full 15 days, which is precisely what he wanted to prevent. It was a miserable, frustrating time for the whole family as we waited with him, and cared for him while he waited. If he had initiated the first request upon diagnosis, the second could have waited until the last minute, and the drug would have been delivered immediately.

Odd thing is that I watched something today on it using 10 gallons of helium and a plastic bag.


I'm torn on it but I wouldnt want to prolong my pain and suffering on me nor my family.

Thanks for sharing that Zoa.

I watched my first wife and my brother both die a slow agonizing death from cancer. I know both of them would have ended it if they were able to.

Vinny, I had no idea.

An up and coming method is chemical suicide in autos. I just gave a haz-mat class on it. It is a big concern to first responders.
A mixture of common household chemicals in a bucket, within a few minutes you have hydrogen sulfide gas, and death in a few minutes after that. The method apparently originated in Japan.


Yeah Hugh, back in 2002, a couple weeks apart.



.

Sometimes I wonder. While I don't know of any instances when an animal actually intentially jumps off a cliff but it sure does seem like Armidillos have a death wish on roads...

Oregon has legal assisted suicide, but it is highly restricted and difficult to do.

Besides jyl's post, the fact is that most people who attempt suicide are mentally deranged.

Most people ending their own life are depressed. It is a mental illness. It is very unfair that life insurance would not cover that, especially if it has been taken out before the illness ensued.

Looks like Californians aren't too depressed. I will post this next time the "California is doomed" thread pops up again. ;)

http://www.cdc.gov/ViolencePreventio...ap_2009_md.gif

The legislature here (VT.) is debating this right now.
Vt. lawmakers hear debate over assisted suicide - WCAX.COM Local Vermont News, Weather and Sports-

I knew a young man that did and not due to illness. he broke 8 ribs a clavicle, some vertabrae and a few other bones. in a bicycle accident. about a month into the healing he shot himself. He had a friend that ditched him and did it on the guys lawn. I don't think it was a bromance but pain killers and lots of pain make some bad thoughts.

For a full on self suicide it's a pointless law, but the fact remains that it's a very unnatural thing to do , it's not that easy especially not for those with debilitating desease, many people need assistance. So making it illegal keeps people from getting help they need and as such they suffer longer then they want.

That's why Kevorkian dit what he did and got jailed for it.

I think suicide is such a broad topic that it needs to be discussed in more detail. With both needing the proper medical intervention. You have the people who commit suicide because of mental illness/depression. This is where the person needs psychological treatment. Their body wants to live but their brain doesn't. On the other side of the spectrum, you have assisted suicide. In this case, their brain wants to live, but their body doesn't. The interesting thing about assisted suicide is that you have to look at how medicine has advanced in the last several decades. Science and technology has given us the ability to keep people "alive" for a long time. I put that in quotes because we can keep people breathing/heart beating for an infinite amount of time with interventions when if untreated would most likely die much quicker. I think hospice is the "happy medium" for both sides. But if certain religions can REFUSE medical treatment that would most definitely save their lives, why can't some people ACCEPT medical treatment that would not prolong their life?

It pains me to hear that a cancer patient died in pain. Because assisted suicide is illegal, it is feared to give that "lethal" dose. As a hospice nurse, I helped manage a lot of patients and their pain meds. Morphine isn't the only medication out there for cancer pain. You have oxycodone, even methadone, to control pain. You have different delivery methods, long acting, short acting. We, as healthcare workers, have failed if we could not ease the pain of a cancer patient. Just as I fought hard to keep somebody alive, I needed to fight equally hard for my patient to die a peaceful and pain free death. It was my job, my duty, my responsibility to help patients find a medication to ease their pain. And I would say 99.9%, I was successful. A lot of people think hospice was a death sentence. Our goal was not to make death less painful but find a way to make LIFE less painful so that the limited amount of time our patients had could be spent with their loved ones, not fighting pain.

Good God!
Was that supposed to be green?

There is a local mechanic that I know fairly well. I knew him from the industry, but he also lives 5 houses up the street from us. He was having some problems with his wife a few years back, and decided to end it all.
12 guage point blank to the face. He survived. His face is a mess. I cannot even imagine what he went through physically, or mentally.

^^^^Same thing happened to a kid I knew of in my hometown.

My dad has been in a nursing home for 5 years now. Stroke victim. Dying cell by cell. He stopped being able to recognize me a few months after mom died 2 years ago. No one should have to go through this - not just the patient, but the family.

The only beneficiary in a situation like this is the medical/insurance industry.

Death with dignity for me, please.

Many good points here. Tweeze has the background and experience in that field and that takes a lot of courage.So she knows what she is talking about. When I visit my FIL(97) in his group home, I am sure that many there have suicidal thoughts but have no means to end their life. Their meds are rationed and there is no body of water or steep cliff to end a life.

Conversely there are many people that are younger and live in an impossibly bad situation(eg. bad marriages, abuse etc) and have the means to end life but choose not to. I am sure when a person chooses to end their life, the illegality of the act does not enter their mind.

My uncle died in 1978. I don't know what pain drugs were available back then but his hospice nurse could not give him more morphine because it would be a lethal dose as I remember. It was a long time ago and his wife and children were in charge of his care.

My father in law slowly faded away from Alzheimer disease. That is a case where no one that has seen what it does to a human would want to live like that themselves. He was very physically fit before his brain failed him. It took many years to get to the point where he did not remember how to chew. He finally died from dehydration because he would not drink because he did not know how to swallow. It was a very slow torturous horrible death. I would much prefer a lethal injection to existing like that. It sure was not living in any sense except a legal one.

Oh yes. The doctors and the nursing home all wanted to put a feeding tube to keep my father in law's heart and resperation going. He was long ago dead from Alzheimer's but they just saw a paycheck.

A close friend had the opposite experience Glen. Her father was comatose, in fetal position for months and the doctor and especially the nursing home staff kept asking if she wanted them to unplug him. Her sister, who lived out of state and had not seen him in years, kept insisting that they not. The doc had a frank discussion with my friend and they conspired to allow them to unplug him without the sister's knowledge. I'm sure the nursing home owner wanted to keep the bed filled, but he wasn't part of the discussion.

There is a vast spectrum of circumstances in this topic, but it should boil down to the true wishes of the patient in most cases. That's why an early declaration of whether or not to DNR(do not resuscitate) should be mandatory with drivers licenses, or some form of registration, so everyone is legally and morally on the same page.

Thou shalt not kill.

EOM.

Eom?

But then how can we blame all the mean old Christians if that is the case?

IMHO it is more a case of the government(s) wanting to control us... even after death.