I disagree. We pay our police force to enforce the law, and to protect our Constitutional rights. All of us. They are responsible for every choice they made, especially once he was cornered in the cabin, and they had complete control of the situation. They had the choice to attempt to take him alive.

I offered him some thin mints and a glass of whole milk if he came out

Two completely different circumstances.

Rodney king was not armed and had not killed people/cops.

They "Killed" this guy because he was held up in a cabin and shooting at them with some success.

What I'm concerned about is the use of CS gas. If they used enough he may have become unconscious and therefore unable to surrender.
.... I'm not buying the single shot just before the fire. Way too convenient.

CS gas is flammable. It's been speculated that the CS gas pumped into the Waco building was ignited on purpose by the FBI.
Did the cops use the same tactic at the cabin?

Fair enough.

WHAT IF he would have placed his hands up over his head and walked out?

I have a feeling someone would have "accidentally" shot him. Or there would have been some BS story how he opened fire on them.

Could this guy have given up and come out of this alive even if he wanted to??

I'm not so sure...

Was he actually shooting at them? It's hard to tell from this thread. If yes, then a different set of circumstances. I get the feeling From this thread he was "holed up" and not presently firing at them.

Which is precisely why I think the police have the responsibility to calm the hell down, and make every attempt to bring the guy in alive. If he decides to put the gun in his mouth, so be it. But we pay them to apprehend, not execute.

Good point, but they were reasonably sure. The cabin owner was on TV saying that she had shut the place down, and had shut off the electricity, heat, etc. The owner was surprised to learn from watching TV that her cabin was involved.

And how do you know that he's not diabetic AND lactose intolerant? You brute!!


I am happy that the guy is dead. That is why I am not quick to judge the cops here. I am also glad that he's not being given free medical, free meals, free legal appeals, etc etc like the scum shooters we have seen lately.

I also agree with ZOA, that it will be very very interesting to see if there is a bullet hole pre-mortem through his skull.

He killed one cop at the cabin and injured another so he was definitely shooting at them

You really can't make a proper assessment of what actually from the video.

Totally agree. I'm just concerned about the bigger picture. The more power we give to "authorities", the worse it'll be for us citizens.

I'll say this, I would have been impressed if they would have taken him alive.

Is anyone surprised they didn't use a drone strike to kill him?? :)

Label him a terrorist, and they would have gotten the green light... :)

nobody mentioned Ruby Ridge yet

nobody mentioned Ludlow, Colo. either

I TOTALLY posted this yesterday!

They actually called him a terrorist.

Yes, he shot at them when the standoff started. Almost a day went by, police evacuated the area, news flooded in, people like me tuned into the scanners.....then the final chapter around 4:30 when the cops brought in the burners. By then, they had already rammed the holes in the walls, they had shot up the cabin, saw bloodspatters on the wall, etc etc. They knew they got him, they pretty much were sealing the deal.

I understand your question, and I agree with your and OWP's point. I also agree that this is a nation of laws, and I agree that the cops are given discretion to use force only because they are often there as a first responder, and need to be judicious in that use of force.....

But I just can't bring myself to condemn the cops yet. I can condemn them for shooting innocent bystanders for sure, but for killing a murderer, even if he was bleeding out at the time....I just don't know yet.

Doesn't matter krap what we think...

Give the guy a chance to surrender, then do what you have to do to get him out, without risking your men's lives.

What that is, depends on the situation and the risk. This guy, was a proven extreme threat. Every time he's shot it out with police, an officer has died. You treat his threat very differently from a routine burglar etc.

Hmmm.I think this shoulkd be in green. I'm pretty sure my life is equally as important as a cop. Sorry no that's not correct, I am positive it is more important than any cop. Cops or any LEO are no more important and don't have any rights gretaer than any other.

This dovetails with an earlier thread that asked "When is it OK to shoot a cop?" If you find yourself in a situation where you are forced to shoot one, wouldn't you prefer that the ones who show up to arrest you use a little restraint? This is precisely why we have laws, and why we train our authorities to be held to a higher standard.

Baz, you usually get it right but I beg to differ here. I fail to see where a person that kills a cop should have no rights. You have implied here that if one of us "regular" people gets killed by a lowlife, our murder should be treated differently. Murder is murder, from 8 months to 80 years old and regardless of vocation, sex, color or anything else. They should all be treated the same.