Should be in "Real Men" thread
 

A little background: My friend's daughter has twin 6 yo sons. The boy's father and her ex husband is a POS Dirt Bag Father. One boy has cancer. The first thing POS DBF said when he learned his son had cancer was, "I'm not selling my bike." The family has fallen on hard times and mom and the boys live with grandma (my friend).
I was visiting last night and POS DBF came over and announced that he was suing to have his child support payments lowered because their expenses are lower now that they live with grandma. I kept my mouth shut until he said something about wanting to teach his boy how to be a man. I knew I should keep a low profile but I couldn't help myself. At that point I said, "What would you know about being a man?"

I told him that a man's highest calling is caring for his children. Pointed out that he was such a failure as a man that his own sons had to turn to charity of have a roof over their heads. And now that they were successful and finding someone else to cover for his failings, here he is, making BS excuses to be even less of a man for his sons. I pointed out that real men do not subscribe to the ghetto definition of fatherhood where you breed sons and leave it to someone else to raise them. I may have said something about him being a whiney beoch who would rather drink beer and play with motorcycles than be a man to his sons too, which I regret no matter how true it is. He left in a huff and the mom and grandmother are not happy with me disrespecting the useless POS. From my point of view, I was the only one in the house who knows what being a man is about.

Nobody likes when the truth is spoken.

Especially about POS DBs...

Nice work !

Good job Pat!

Kudo's to you for standing up and saying the right thing.

We can postulate all day on the Internet about "what is wrong with society"...

But this is it in a nutshell.

Not to be rude but not just the POS "father" (I use the term loosely) but the mother obviously made a bad choice in partner (drawn to the cool factor of a bad boy boyfriend)...

Well said. Your friends might not have liked what you said but they were thinking the same thing.

Not only is he a POS DBF, he is also wrong in thinking that the child support will be lowered because of a change in the child's living arrangements. 20% is 20%, standard for child support and am not aware it can be lowered.

I don't care how bitter a divorce someone goes through, or how much bickering happens between a divorced couple. Not my problem. BUT...

when you take out your bitterness and anger on the innocent children -- that is the lowest low.

I never understood why people do that.

-Z

Good for you for speaking up

Each state is different. I'm not sure exactly what the formula is here in Ohio, but both parent's assets, incomes, and living expenses figure into the child support each parent is supposed to provide. The POS DBF has already gotten caught buying a motorcycle and titling it in his mother's name so it didn't show up as an asset while claiming the payments as one of his living expenses.

Patrick, you are the bomb.(that is what the kids say)

I say this with the assumption that the children were not there to hear it, because I am absolutely certain you would not do that to the kids.

Yes, laws vary from state to state. After my divorce my ex and daughter lived with her parents. Father in law a surgeon and MIL was RN. They lived in a multi million dollar home while I paid them 20% and scraped by in a low rent apartment.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/clap.gif

well done....

at least somebody stood up for the kids..
Mom & Granni seem to be lost...
disrespecting him..too funny..
Mom deserves the loser..

the kids don't...

Rika

good luck to all parties

I feel your pain. I'm in the same boat, but I only pay about 33% of my gross towards child support. It could be less, but my ex chooses not to have a job. So, her lack of income is my problem (Arizona has an algorith that takes into account what I make vs. what she makes, plus some other factors). On top of that 33%, I pay for their medical insurance (which I'm 100% cool with--they're my kids and they need to be insured), and I pay 50% of any other expenses they have (doctor visit copays, sports, girl scout activities, etc.).

I hate child support laws; they're stupid. I think instead of the money going to whichever parent is receiving the payments, it should go into an expense account of sorts. If the kid(s) need something (food, clothes, a certain % of parent's rent/mortgage, anything really), the parent can dip into that account and use the money. BUT they should not be able to use the money for anything that is not for the children. The way I see it, the money I'm sending to my ex could be money that I'd be sticking away into college accounts. She's since remarried and her new husband makes almost as much as I do, so she's not hurting for cash. But does she have college accounts set up for the kids? Of course not. It frustrates the hell out of me, and I've broached the subject with her numerous times, but she's just horrible with money and with future planning.

The old saying is certainly true: It's cheaper to keer her. I just wish I could at least claim some of the child support on my taxes.


And to the OP; good job calling out the deadbeat. Deadbeat dads are a prime reason why divorce and child support laws are the way they are; unfortunately, it also screws us decent fathers.

I was never on the paying side, but I've seen it from the other side. My stepson's father was around to take my SS to buy school clothes and toys, but never had the money for child support. So SS grew up thinking his dad was Santa and his mother and I were grouches for worrying about the gas bill and grocery money all the time. It was difficult at the time, but in retrospect, I had the privilege of spending time with him, teaching him how to drive, how to tie a tie and put on a suit, and how to worry about money. I'm a little bit jaded in that I can look back and see what a gift it was to be able to raise that boy. I don't know what else I could have spent the money on that would be worth that.

There is a big difference between a Father and a sperm donor. This POS DBF is nothing more than a POS sperm donor.

Good on ya for speaking up. Wish you, the mother and the boys all the best. Hope that one day their life is graced with a man who is a FATHER.

angela (red-headed step child - raised by a REAL man)

Copngrats on letting the worthless idiot know a little truth for a change. The reaction of the Ex and the mother might hellp explain his attitude. Bet his family did the same when he was growing up. It's unfortunate prople like him are allowed to become and remain so uncarring and self centered.

I hear ya there, Pat. I'm remarried and wife has 2 sons (currently 12 and almost 15). Their dad is pretty much non-existent in their lives. Every couple years, he'll take them for a couple weeks in the summer or around Christmas, almost never calls, IF they get a birthday present it's something cheap and always late...and they idolize him. So, it's up to me to try to teach them how to be men. I'm a bit old school, served time in the Army and expect things to be a certain way. I'm teaching them values they've never been taught, and expect them to work (school, some easy chores, etc).

Hang in there. I know it's tough when they think you are the devil incarnate, out to make their lives a living hell. Lot's of times my stepson didn't like me, thought I was being mean, etc, but I did what was right to the best of my ability and now that he's grown and has kids of his own he understands. We have each other's mutual love and respect and when his kids call me grandpa I kind of choke up a little.

Yeah. I view my "reward" as a parent/step-parent will be seeing my children lead productive lives as adults.

The toughest part for me is trying to understand them. As a boy, I played sports, liked cars, etc (all the "guy stuff"). My step-sons...have no interest in sports, or anything else that I deem to be "guy stuff." A lot of this I attribute to them not having a father really in their lives during their formative years, but it still baffles me...I just thought it was something we were born with. Case in point, my first car was a POS, but it was mine, and I loved having a car. I bought my step-son a car last year (he was 14), and it seems like he pretty much doesn't care. I'm trying to teach him a bit about maintaining it, and even took him out to a deserted area so he could drive--and HE DIDN'T WANT TO! That blew my mind. We went to the auto paint place here in town and I let him pick out whatever color he wants to paint the car, and I'm going to do it myself, with him helping do the sanding and what not...figured it'd be a nice father/son experience and give him a deeper sense of ownership to his first car. We'll see.

hang in there Guy & thank you Patrick..
someone like you took the time yrs ago....
I miss him every day..
best compliment I ever got...
your just like him.....
I'm not..but I try every day..

Rika

Atta Boy, Patrick!!

Hey Patrick
Give him a free kick in the 'cobblers' for us. I know of a couple of dead-beat-fathers that are in real need a good a$$ kickin' & to think those bastards are still capable of tossing their progeny into the gene pool.
Cheers
JB

I have a question for anyone who knows about life insurance. In the OP I said the first thing this POS did when he learned his son had cancer was to say, "I'm not selling my bike." It turns out that somewhere around the second thing he did was to take out a life insurance policy on the child. I know if you are an adult there are health questions you have to answer, an I'm pretty sure that if you say on the questionnaire, "I just found out I have cancer," you aren't going to get a policy. But I don't know about kids. Do they ask questions about the health status of the child or do they just assume a child isn't going to die within the year and sell the policy? Trying to figure out whether this POS defrauded the insurance company or not.
On another note, his child died on a Friday and on Monday his attorney filed a suit to have his entire child support commitment eliminated. I know you can't get an attorney to file a suit in a matter of hours. He was planning this all along. While the rest of us were dealing with the decline and death of this boy, his dad was busy scheming how to capitalize on it for his own financial gain.
It sickens me to know that while he was sitting in the hospital with big crocodile tears in his eyes on the child's last day he was really thinking about the jackpot he would reap as soon as the boy passed. It's just sickening.

That POS dirtbag is not a father. You are using the wrong word. He is just a baby daddy. I had a father, please don't besmirch that word by applying to that POS.

I will miss my father on father's day. There will never be a baby daddy day.

Well put, there are less and less of us real men left, I don't see it getting any better.

Steve

I just read the entire thread, sorry for the loss.
I am pretty sure a policy would not have been approved for someone with cancer. Which would mean a fraud on his part if he knew, got the policy and then collected on it.
Take care
Steve

Nice job. Sad thing is Grams and the Mom think you disprected the POS, shows they probably had a similar man in their lives. Cycles continue......

How awful... What a POS.

Well done Pat but I've raised my kids on my own and my ex wife has never paid one cent in support.
It's been over 10 years now. Thank god they're healthy and I have a good job.

But when my Ex's BF finally left her early last year he took 22 guitars with him. He owned 2 when he met her and he's never had a regular job.
He's a muso and has never done that well. She basically supported him the whole time they were together.

Somehow I find that amusing and infuriating at the same time.

If it makes you feel any better this "man of the year" will never amount to anything.
It's great you had the courage to say something but I suspect it won't make any difference.

Sent you a PM... Don't know if it will be helpful.

This thread makes me sad. Even though my ex and I are divorced, we both work hard to provide for our boys financially and for their well-being. Although I have never received a penny in child support, we split expenses for the children right down the middle. 50/50. And I think it's fair. I don't understand these women who have children, split with the father, complain about the POS and then keep the chain tight by relying on him for money. Honestly? I wanted the least amount of dependence on my ex. If he pulled something (alcoholic at the time), I could keep the boys without any worry financially. I think sometimes women can be even bigger POS sometimes by not recognizing that they can rid themselves of their exes and their POS behavior if they came up with a plan to not be dependent on them. I don't understand that.

On the flip side, it also saddens me that there are men like this fella. :( Good for you for saying something. I have found out a lot of POS people are that way because people sometimes are scared to say something to them. So they think the whole time their behavior is OK. If they hear the opposite all the time, they have choice but to stop and think about it for a second. Doesn't mean the will change but they can't say they didn't know they were doing wrong thing. Kudos.

I believe in karma. Just do the right thing and things will work out in the end. That doesn't mean you won't have challenges.

This guy will learn eventually but it will be way to late when he does.

I wish my ex-wife was like you...

I pay A LOT in child support each month AND we split all of the kids' expenses (sports, activities, doc visits, etc) 50/50. And they're on my insurance. AND she still asks me for extra money every couple months. Now, I have no problem paying child support of almost any amount if the money's going to the kids. What bothers me is that she doesn't work; my "child support" is what pays all her bills.

My opinion is that the court system needs to be reworked. I think child support should go into an account specifically set up for the kid(s), and money can only be pulled from it to pay for things that are directly for them. I'd even be OK with a certain percentage of the funds being used for her house payment, utilities, etc. because those are things that benefit the kids, obviously. But making her car payment, her clothes shopping, credit card bills, all that BS...that was no longer my responsibility once I divorced her. My responsibility is solely the kids, now and my money should go to THEM, not her.

Rant over...sorry.

I agree. The only case where I would say otherwise is if the woman didn't have the skill set or education to get a well paying job, or at least a job to pay her existing bills. I have seen some friends put their education to the way side while they supported their men through college only to pigeonhole themselves into "no way out" or be the slave to alimony if divorced. I say teach the woman how to "fish so she she can eat forever". Agree to pay half of trade school, whatever so the chain can be cut. That's how I see it.

And mind you, don't think all women think its awesome when she takes her ex "to the cleaners". I have a friend who doesn't work, all the children are in school and she refuses to go back to work using her degree because her ex husband makes good money and he left her for the younger woman he cheated with. To each their own but if it was me, I wouldn't let that man know that I even remotely "needed" him. I would become the better, stronger woman and find me a better man or heck, be a strong, happy single woman. Sometimes just being plain happy is the greatest revenge. :)

I don't know what kind of plan would have worked for her. She had a good job (better than dad's) and wasn't really dependent on the dad. 14 months ago our biggest concern was his erratic demands for custody.
Then their son got cancer. She used up all her vacation and FMLA time and then had to quit her job to take care of the child. She burned through all her savings and everybody stepped in to help but the POS father.
That's all in the past. She and the boys are doing OK when he's not jabbing at them and I'm sure she would be happy to have POS disappear and never see her or give her a dime ever again.
I'm just appalled that a father would take out a life insurance policy on his dying child and have a lawyer on the line waiting for the child to pass away so he could to sue to end child support ASAP. It's stunningly cruel and heartless and the knowledge that this man still has two sons to destroy is killing me. I love them and spend time with them every week, but I don't know if I can stomach watching what he'll do to them.

I paid her way through college; she decided to never bother getting a job. I also took all of OUR debt (which was 95% due to her shopping addiction). The only bill I didn't take was her car. So, basically she walked away free and clear, and I still got screwed on the child support end of the stick.

Sad. Doesn't seem like that man should even have rights to see his boys. But those boys will see it when they grow older. Tell her to chug along.

1) Congrats on speaking the truth.

2) The life insurance could be a group policy that is not underwritten. Also could be some sort of child-life plan that doesn't get underwritten but may have a stepped benefit or some mechanism to prevent fraud. However, if the DBF did defraud a policy, he will not receive a benefit if caught. He may meet the local law enforcement folks as well. Makes me wonder what the TV station might think? Life insurance on your cancer stricken kid = Huge DB.

Wow, just read this older thread. I gotta admit that I'm damn proud to associate with a lot of you Pelicans...even if it is just online. The world would be a better place if there were a LOT more guys like you Patrick. Good luck, and I sincerely mean that!

Patrick, I think you showed great restraint.

This is why I don't speak to my ex wife. Have spoken perhaps 10 words to her since our divorce, and have seen her hundreds of times.

That stupid life support system for a vagina never understood she was hurting the kids far more than she was hurting me. I could look at it and see it for what it was, messed the kids up for a looong time. The years have not been kind to her. I look 10 years younger than I am and have stayed pretty fit. She looks 10 years older than she is and is at least 100# overweight. My daughter in law can't stand her.