Looking for a mid to large-size 4 door sedan (used). Suggestions??

[june82000]

Like the title states, I am looking for a mid to large-size four door sedan (used); not an SUV as I already have one. Volvos are out also because I am selling the '96 I have and the newer ones are too small. I like Acuras, but it seems like alot of the TL models have "new transmission" stated in the ad which makes me wonder. Reliability and style are the most important aspects. I like the way BMWs look, as well as Mercedes. I drive an Acura and I like the TLs but not sure if there is something inherently wrong with them or not. American cars are at the bottom of the list for me as well. This is for my wife so looking for an automatic. Should be able to fit 5 persons comfortably from time to time. My budget is $10,000 more or less. Less is better!

[greglepore]

Audi A8's are terrific values for the money. Personally, I'd buy pre '04 to avoid the air suspension-the car is more or less the same except for the infotainment interface. The air suspension works well, but is failure prone and expensive (struts around 1k, compressor same...).

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Audi A8's are terrific values for the money. Personally, I'd buy pre '04 to avoid the air suspension-the car is more or less the same except for the infotainment interface. The air suspension works well, but is failure prone and expensive (struts around 1k, compressor same...).

Yup. So long as they have had the transmission fluid changed every 80k and the timing belt every 90k they are nearly bulletproof. My 2002 S8 was the highest quality car that I have ever owned, both in material quality and assembly. Big back seat, we had three adults across without issue. Though with that said, they will still be higher maintenance than a Honda. If you want reliability above all, stick with the Japanese.

After 5 BMWs I won't own another, but the E39 5-series is generally thought of as a great car. Smallish back seat though. Avoid the 7-series like the plague. The W210 Mercedes E-class is a good car if you find one that's been well kept, the W211 is more complicated and thus has more to go wrong. Again though, smallish back seat. The S-class is much like the BMW 7-series, lots of goodies that can (and will) go wrong. Others worth considering:

Acura - the TLs in the early 2000s had some major transmission issues. I think the next model was better. The RL is also worth a look.
Saab 9-5 - very underrated car, especially in Aero form. Great power, great MPG, fun to drive. Another midsized car, so not a huge back seat.
Lexus LS - impeccably made, runs forever with minimal maintenance, boring. Probably the one I would lean towards if it were for my wife.
Lexus GS - see above in a smaller form
Infiniti Q45 - never that popular, so pretty cheap as a used car. Big inside, nice big V8, a bit more sport than the Lexus.
Toyota Avalon - yawn
Nissan Maxima - another more fun choice, but another midsize back seat.
Jaguar XJ8/XJR - only the X308 model, then subsequent one has a very problematic air suspension. Beautiful inside and out, the XJR is a rocketship, surprisingly reliable as they were designed during Ford ownership of Jag. Smallish back seat though.
Subaru - Outback, Legacy, and Forester would all fit the bill. All are fun with the turbo 4-cylinder.
Mazda6 - really fun for what it is, reliable, decent sized back seat. Available as a hatchback and wagon as well.

[Nostril Cheese]

Saab 9-5 is good choice, provided it has been serviced.
Mercury Grand Marquis. Grandpa drove the newest model every year until they stopped making them. solid, smooth running 4.6L can give 20mpg.

[HardDrive]

Lexus are not the most exciting cars to drive, but you can't argue with the build quality. Ours is over 10 years old. I would avoid air suspension.

Well maintained Mercedes E320 might be another good option.

[june82000]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Lexus are not the most exciting cars to drive, but you can't argue with the build quality. Ours is over 10 years old. I would avoid air suspension.

I had a 2002 RX-300; bought it used w/85k miles. Pretty much the same day I bought it, it started smoking really bad on startup and showed no oil on the dipstick even after draining and refilling. SLUDGE! Turns out the 3.0 Toyota V6 of that era has alot of problems with sludging if you don't change the oil religiously. Turned out good though because LEXUS paid for a new engine at 85k after I just bought it used!! I did like it - nice looking crossover vehicle.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by june82000

I had a 2002 RX-300; bought it used w/85k miles. Pretty much the same day I bought it, it started smoking really bad on startup and showed no oil on the dipstick even after draining and refilling. SLUDGE! Turns out the 3.0 Toyota V6 of that era has alot of problems with sludging if you don't change the oil religiously. Turned out good though because LEXUS paid for a new engine at 85k after I just bought it used!! I did like it - nice looking crossover vehicle.

Sounds like you bought a problem car that somebody dumped. Can't really blame Lexus for 85k miles worth of neglect.

[BRPORSCHE]

Mazda6.

I swear by it. Really. It's that good.

[95avblm3]

I've heard of the sludging issues with some of the Toyota engines. As for Honda/Acura, do some research on transmission issues... I think some models were prone to them in the early 2000's although I'm not up to speed on which models and when.

I'll go ahead and throw this one out there as the resident Hyundai champ: how about a 1st-gen Azera?

It meets your criteria; large and comfortable, reliable and can be had with decent mileage all day long for $10k or less. I believe the 1st gen was produced from the 2006 model year until 2011ish. They were introduced at the beginning of Hyundai's renaissance, or when they quit building crap, so should be a decent car. I drive a Genesis and am very happy with it.

[june82000]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Sounds like you bought a problem car that somebody dumped. Can't really blame Lexus for 85k miles worth of neglect.

Maybe so, but you're also mis-informed. It was bad enough that they lost a class-action lawsuit.

Toyota Agrees to Sludge Settlement for Consumers

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by june82000

Maybe so, but you're also mis-informed. It was bad enough that they lost a class-action lawsuit.

Toyota Agrees to Sludge Settlement for Consumers

I'm aware of the issue. Several other makers that gambled with extended service intervals had the same problem. My point as an anal-retentive car guy is that I would never consider going 10k+ miles between oil changes. I consider that neglect, regardless of what the manual says. I personally change every 5,000 miles with Mobil 1, which I'm sure is probably overkill. I think of it as cheap insurance.

[oldE]

Have a look at Infinity M45 and Q45. Enough power to get out of their own way and if my friend's car (Q)was anything to base an opinion on, a great distance car.

Best
Les

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by HardDrive

Well maintained Mercedes E320 might be another good option.

This.

Or an E350, or go for broke and look at the AMG E-class. Scorching motor in a very comfortable luxo car.

If you want something more stylish, you can look at the Benz CLS.

If you want something bigger, then you can opt for a Benz S-Class.

-Z

[june82000]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I'm aware of the issue. Several other makers that gambled with extended service intervals had the same problem. My point as an anal-retentive car guy is that I would never consider going 10k+ miles between oil changes. I consider that neglect, regardless of what the manual says. I personally change every 5,000 miles with Mobil 1, which I'm sure is probably overkill. I think of it as cheap insurance.

I agree with you but cars shouldn't self-destruct if you do. I think the recomended interval on mine was 7,500 miles. To tell the truth, I personally haven't had a ton of luck with Toyota products; but I've only owned 4, maybe 5 in my life. That said, my mother-in-law has a 99 Corolla with 350k+ on the clock and you just can't kill the thing.

[june82000]

My dad has an '89 300E with about 80 some-odd thousand miles on it. I saw it last summer and it still looks brand new; always garaged and dealer maintained. He did mention he was going to sell it and I told him to let me know when he decided when that would be. Anybody here familiar with those? Reliable?

[june82000]

What about the '98 to '05 S-Class (W220)? I remember on one of the Top Gear UK episodes, Clarkson drove the S-600 and had great things to say about it.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by june82000

My dad has an '89 300E with about 80 some-odd thousand miles on it. I saw it last summer and it still looks brand new; always garaged and dealer maintained. He did mention he was going to sell it and I told him to let me know when he decided when that would be. Anybody here familiar with those? Reliable?

The W124s are fantastic cars if well taken care of. Denis (speeder) is a great resource on all things old Mercedes, and Shaun (Shaun 84 Targa) is on his second W124 wagon after the first one saved his life in an accident.

Originally Posted by june82000

What about the '98 to '05 S-Class (W220)? I remember on one of the Top Gear UK episodes, Clarkson drove the S-600 and had great things to say about it.

You said you wanted reliable, right? A very complicated car, designed and built during the darkest days of the Daimler-Chrysler venture.

[june82000]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

The W124s are fantastic cars if well taken care of. Denis (speeder) is a great resource on all things old Mercedes, and Shaun (Shaun 84 Targa) is on his second W124 wagon after the first one saved his life in an accident.

Maybe I should just talk to my dad some more about the car. It is in, I dare say, near flawless condition and he'll probably give me a good deal on it. Seems wierd buying a car from my dad though...

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

You said you wanted reliable, right? A very complicated car, designed and built during the darkest days of the Daimler-Chrysler venture.

That's kind of what scares me about a car like that. I can only imagine how much parts would likely be as well.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by june82000

Maybe I should just talk to my dad some more about the car. It is in, I dare say, near flawless condition and he'll probably give me a good deal on it. Seems wierd buying a car from my dad though...



That's kind of what scares me about a car like that. I can only imagine how much parts would likely be as well.

I would absolutely look deeper into the W124 as an option. I personally prefer them to many of the newer models, if they are well kept you can't hardly kill them. I came really close to buying a W124 500E a few years ago, and still want one.

As for the newer S-class, stay far far away. From what I've read they can be scary expensive to maintain.

[june82000]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I would absolutely look deeper into the W124 as an option. I personally prefer them to many of the newer models, if they are well kept you can't hardly kill them. I came really close to buying a W124 500E a few years ago, and still want one.

As for the newer S-class, stay far far away. From what I've read they can be scary expensive to maintain.

I don't doubt that one bit. Thanks!