Interested in building my own home...
 

The wife and I are are starting to think about getting into a home we can retire in. Our current home was great for raising the kids but frankly is too big to maintain as empty nesters and I really want a single level home for our later years. I just turned 50 and have lots of experience with flooring (tile/wood) and simple cabinet making, basic electrical, and some finish work.

My actual career is as a software/systems consultant for various Federal agencies. As you can imagine the industry is being rocked by funding issues and we are being proactive in managing the risk by downscaling on an accelerated schedule. Our original plan was to stay put till the kids were out of High School (another 5 years). We are looking to stay in the area so the kids won't be affected - plus we really like it here.

My thinking here is that the housing market is pretty active and we have good equity in our home. We have looked at many existing homes with the intent finding a fixer that I could oversee but recently stumbled across a nice view lot in a desirable location. It is a remaining lot (of 3) in a community of planned and semi-custom homes. The lot is graded and all utilities are in place - which I hear is 40% of the battle in building a home.

So I have no experience with home building in general or how this is normally done. Our plan is to first sell our existing home and get into a leased property. Once that is accomplished we can start reviewing our options and I have no problems with time schedules - anticipating a 16 month lease if needed.

I'm looking for inputs from folks with actual experience and or good references. Ideally I would like to get a partial GC to handle the primary structure construction leaving me to handle most of the finish work - some of which I can do and others I will contract out. I believe we would be happy with an existing plan from one of the major developers with minimal/no changes - so hopefully that will save costs as well. About costs, we hope to keep that under $140 sq/ft for the construction - land will be already purchased.

So am I insane, dreaming, or sorta on target with this?

Thanks in advance!
David

We had generally the same thought. We ended up buying an existing single level home that needed to be brought into the 21st century (it was mostly still vintage 1965 inside :eek:). We have been remodeling using various contractors, and our own labor for some of the projects. We have a GC for our kitchen remodel. So far, the project has been going well and we're really looking forward to wrapping it all up and retiring.

the other 50% is getting the actual building permit.

Review plans and talk to an architect
(Make sure the architect gets you approved plans before you make the big chunk of your final
payments especially if you are using a set of existing plan from another builder)

Hill side construction for $140 sq' may not be doable even without finish work this depends on things like foundation, size of the home, and the design and structure itself.

Start interviewing contractors and be specific as to how much of the work you like him to do

My suggestion is to have one person do the following:

Grading
Fondation
Framing
Rough electrical and plumbing
Roofing
Finish the exterior so you can take you time to finish the inside while the place is sealed up.

Oh have them put in a driveway so your men are not walking in mud while finishing the house.

Java,

Have your architect work with his engineer so you are not running back and forth doing his job. Have him be responsible for the whole thing and get plans approved. if not, you will be running around pulling your hair out of your head. The last and easy part is to build the house.

What exactly do you plan to do yourself that's worth having to deal with the subs?

Drywall/ flooring/ kitchen and bath fixtures?

Seems like design/build with the builder and architect would make more sense unless you are interested in a huge headache.

The lot already has a level pad graded. All utilities on site. The home will be completely on the level pad - no piers or suspended construction.

Your list pretty much sums up what I am looking for. I would want the exterior finished and the interior to be completed minus flooring, paint, moulding, and possibly cabinetry. Hardscape (driveway and backyard) I will contract out separately (if that saves money).

In my initial web searches I discovered that single level home construction appears to cost more than multi-level - guessing due to the additional slab. We are hoping for a 3 bdrm/2.5 bath - no formal dining or living room. Total about 2500 sq/ft. Tile roof spanish style motif.

I was hoping to avoid hiring an architect by using a plan from one of the larger home builders in the area. Hire a GC to handle the permits and the list above. This would not be a time critical venture as far as completion for final approval and move-in. The actual construction would be done mostly with a construction loan - hoping also to secure that outside the GC but again I'm a total novice when it comes to those sort of matters.

My concerns are about buying the land but then not getting approvals/permits. Is there a way to verify those things before committing to buying the actual land?

Thanks for the inputs so far!

I have no knowledge of the geology in the area of this lot, nor what it looks like. Still, I wouldn't assume that the level pad has been done correctly or that piers would not be needed. You need to do a little more investigation before making those assumptions.

Consider waiting until the kids are gone and then maybe scale down to a 1 bedroom. It would be mostly sale-proof, but then no living and dining room puts it in that same category. If you're going to live out your days there, build what you need for your lifestyle. You can always buy the lot now and build on it later.

A two story house may be cheaper than a one story house of the same size, for a lot of reasons other than just the slab area. You also have the roof area, plumbing considerations, etc.

A tile roof is expensive. Ditto for plaster work.

If you wait for the kids to be gone, you might be able to move in before the house is completely finished and work on it as you go. That might save a little money.

JR

Don't hold me to this and I'm sure others will chime in with more exact info but, I think in order to know 100% if you'll get your permits is to apply for them once you own and plan to build. I cannot speak for your area but, around here the only thing there is really to worry about is whether a site perks and the soil conditions, those are the things you have to know before you buy land you plan to put a house on. If your utilities are already there I doubt any of that is a problem. Who ever is selling the site should be able to comfirm whether or not it is able to be built on and its not a bad thing to get in writing. I'm assuming the jurisdictions going to want plans submitted with permit apps so it'd be good to already have that infomation together and readt for the GC building the structure.

I wish you luck in your endeavor, but last I heard, about 10 years ago, custom residential was running 350-450 a foot minimum. I'm not sure how you could get it done that cheaply. Its expensive to build custom in SoCal.

I have read similar prices but for totally custom homes - Rancho Santa Fe type expectations. The neighborhood was completed in 2005 and the homes are all 2 story in the 3700 sq/ft range currently valued ~ $800K. The nearest cross street has many custom homes valued at $1M.

Everything is spendy here for sure Richard.

Buy a fixer and do it. No way you can build new as cheaply. If cost is not an issue then that is a different matter. I have years of experience as a builder and real estate agent. Especially now while prices are depressed. FWIW I have built a lot of, but never bought or lived in a new home. Wat too expensive AND the taxes will eat you up.

no DIY a new home at 50 - no way

now, if you plan to hire a contractor, then see post #11

If you hire a GC you will be under schedule constraints, usually some amount of payment to the GC is based on the permit closeout, essentially approving the house for occupancy. The stuff that you want to do is required for occupancy. Remember as well that most work requires inspection, and some specific work requires you to be licensed to do it. There are generally homeowner level licenses to be had but that varies by area and requires you to attend training classes and take tests. I would strongly suggest sitting down with your local code office to discuss the ins and outs, it's a convoluted process. I suspect you will have a hard time finding any decent GC that will sign up to this arrangement, it's a hassle for them. That leaves you with the shady guys that are hungry for work, not good.

You lose most of your cost benefit by hiring a GC because they will still mark up EVERYTHING. Changes, subcontract labor, materials, all will get marked up. Why wouldn't you just operate as the GC? That way you can pick your subs, shop around for material, set your own schedule, and save the GC markup. The subs are responsible for inspections but operate under the permit that you pay for. That arrangement would also allow you to choose what you want to DIY vs what you want to sub. If you have the time (big if) and assuming that you are construction savvy, it can save you some real money. I just did a garage addition in this way, I paid to have concrete and electrical done by subs and went DIY on the framing, siding, windows, paint, roof, etc.

I'm currently doing what you are thinking of. We sold our house, rented a house, and are now just starting construction. The foundation will be finished this week. I'm the GC. It will keep you very busy juggling subs, materials, inspections, etc. But I'm enjoying it. I'm a geotechnical engineer, so I'm well versed in construction. I have many GC friends who are offering advice as I go. $140/SF may be hard to achieve, but $200/SF is doable. You should PM me and then we can talk on the phone. This can't be covered easily in this format.

Everything whipped says is true, but...

b/c it takes a lot of time and hassle, and "mindshare"

also, you will not have the same relationship with any subs that a real GC does (they have no expectation of you hiring them again), and they will not treat you well - that might be mitigated a bit if your area is still in a big housing bust

and.. you do not have the experience that a real GC does in terms of permitting, who to select as a sub, or materials cost

but, yes, you will save money

Java,

I will get back to this a little later in more detail. Find out who did the soils report from the developer that build the home next door or just talk to him about the foundation. View lots are almost always more money to build because its on a hill side. Equip. access, engineering, and the type of soil and the requirement to build on top of that will get you. Get hold of the guys that build near the lots and they can give you a wealth of info and that will save you lots of leg work and unnecessary money.

There's custom (off the shelve) and there "CUSTOM" where they make everything.

For myself, I would have to be insane for an undertaking such as that.
That said, I was the GQ for a commercial building I put up 20 years ago. I think it cost $31/sq ft (not counting the lot), but it was just a plain concrete block structure. I remember having to blow $900 to have an architect say the plans were earthquake approved (like that's a big concern in Arkansas). Unfortunately the property was condemned shortly before it was finished (but that's another story).
Jim

Webb is correct, it's a royal PITA. But you'll save money. I suppose it's all about what value you put on your time. Frankly any building of a new home is a royal pain.

My wife and I built a house about 10 yrs ago. It turned out really well but took much longer than expected. I worked as a high school shop teacher at the time and had all the skills needed to build but acted as the GC instead. My wife now likes to remind me "my best work is done by cutting checks".
We only lived there about 3 yrs as we had built in the wrong location.
Today we are deep in a major renovation of a small 1904 brick cottage ,so we can move from our 4 br 2 storey and retire to a one floor..
D
A previous post points out the cost benefit of reno of an existing structure and I agree it,s probably a good plan if you get almost what you want in the location you want.

Much sound advice here - good news or bad I really appreciate your inputs.

At 50 I'm not up for full time construction work. My intent was to get the basics completed and then spending 4-5 months trimming the interior to our taste. I don't want to pay for a GC if I don't have too. I have spent much time inspecting homes in various states of construction and have a general idea of the process - but admittedly on several key bits (foundation/slab, framing codes) just enough to be dangerous. I am confident I could handle all of this if I didn't have a newish FT job (gotta go hard and earn it) on the horizon.

I'm starting to think this is going to be far more complicated than I had anticipated...no surprise there.

The existing home market is really taking off here and going for location only means I am buying a home I will partially demolish while leasing something the family can operate within. I was hoping a fresh build would be less problematic but perhaps I was wrong.

Please keep posting your thoughts.

Best,
David

Nobody in our social circle actually uses their formal dining rooms or living rooms. Perhaps its a SoCal thing. I am up for a smaller sitting area, perhaps with a wine bar, but that's about it. 99% of the time we entertain in the great (kitchen+family) room of our home. It is the hub of our family unit.

I'm not going less than 3 bedrooms. The master + 2 that could host guests (our older children) and one to serve as an office if needed. Prefer 3 baths (for each bedroom) but can make do with 2 and a half bath near the great room.

We purchased in an area with Mello Roos (extra property taxes) that we would love to get out of. Communities with MR have typically appreciated quicker than those without but at our age this is less of a concern.

I'm in the process of building a new home. I gave up on the idea of being the GC as it is too time consuming and frustrating (judging from my best friend's experience).

I have been handling the HOA approvals, the coordination of the engineering trades, the design details with the architect and all of my " requirements " for bibs, outlets, circuits, heights, acoustical requirements, etc.

It has taken a lot of time and my experience has been that deadlines do not mean anything. Once i have completed this step and we go into permiting, i'm stepping aside and the gc will take over. I hired him on a fixed price basis to manage the construction.

I'm building full custom, all concrete for approx $200/ft excluding the land. I'm sure it must be rewarding to be your own gc but i figure i'm better at my daytime job.

My build was an infill so I lived next door. We bought a good sized lot with a small house and a large garage on it. We demoed the garage and ended with a virtually free building lot(< $10k) to sever and get a building permit. A friend with a back hoe recommended a larger excavating contractor who dug the basement. He also recommended a foundation contractor. An electrician friend hooked me up with a framing cont. they built the shell in less than a week. I found a roofer by chance who also did very good drywall work in the cold winter season. the guy who cleared the lot of trees gave me a lead on a good bricklayer.
A fulltime builder would be faster since he would have all the contacts. I often didn,t start looking for another sub until one stage was almost complete.
The build goes in 3 basic stages foundation and shell with windows and roof, mechanical(plumbing electrical,hvac) and the 3rd is the finishing of the inside and out(kitchen cabs,flooring,paint ,trim etc.

David, I used to work in construction and know many people that have built a new home. Without fail, the comment that I have always heard is "I'll never build another new house". I cannot think of a single person that had positive comments on the experience. It is incredibly frustrating and time consuming, and frequently costs significantly more than expected. For your skillset and available time (family + new job) I think a livable remodel would be a much better fit. Find something that is "nice enough" and has the potential to be the home you want, then live there as you remodel. Take it one room at a time and it is manageable.

I've taken this approach on my last two homes, we made a little on our first one and stand to probably turn a pretty good profit when we sell the one we are currently in. With that said, I wouldn't do it again. The older I get, the more precious my time is to me. I'd rather be playing with a project car or my kids than remodeling my house. But if it's something you enjoy, that's a different equation.

sounds like you have a fair amount of experience (inspections)

also, you can certainly do trim at 50 (no bad knees, right?)

both those things tend to shift the $$ vs. PIA balance in favor of DIY

but... you still have to decide if it's right for you

another option: are you friends with any GC's? can you have one help & pay him on an hourly basis?

could you get one to backstop you in case you start it off yourself as GC but then decide you'd better make like a crawfish and back on out (to use a common phrase from Louisiana)

finally, do you mind spending money? I know some guys who will just toss $$ at stuff to keep from having to mess with things themselves; others (with comparable net worth) will DIY anything (like the guy who was going to repair his car himself, then decided to cast his own parts, then decided to smelt his own ore, then... -- you have to decide at what point you want to get off the merry go round)

Good Luck and post pics of it, no matter which way you go with the project!

I'll be devil's advocate on this one -- I'm still doing that... 11 years now. It is like a "rolling restoration" which you can ask Zeke about (or me... doing that too).

but, there's option 3:

buy that nice enuff place and remodel it BEFORE moving in...

Planning is the key and talk to your architect about future plans such as landscaping, outdoor kitchen and various things that maybe important to pre-install so you don't go backwards and tear things out again. if you don't tell your architect about the final plans, he will never know and just spec out the basic code requirements. The trick is to have a good understanding with the subs and give them lots of lead time and continue to schedule dates with them as the construction schedule changes. Most guys I found like that because they know what's coming down the pipeline and schedule accordingly. The finish work can run up a huge bill so that where you will save a few bucks.

Keep in mind that you have full control over the design over a fresh build, whereas a remodel is dictated by what's already there. Don't think a full remodel is that much easier.

David - I've done this twice and have more thoughts than time to put on a forum - Briefly:

Did a 1,300 sq ft cabin in 1987. Hired a General to frame, get roof on and ext doors and windows. I took 2 wks off work and was one of his "crew" to frame. After that I did everything: wiring, plumbing, decks, sheetrock, cabinets, etc...

I said I did the cabin to see if I ever wanted to do a complete house. At the end, I'll echo the comment above: NEVER!

Fast forward to when I retired and my wife was still working. Wanted a 2,500 sq st retirement home with 1,600 sq ft garage on 3 acres; one level.

Bid(s) put it out of our league, especially not being able to selll either the house in the city or the cabin in a hard times.

Sooooooo, didn't scale our plans back, but had the general leave after the new house was weather tight. I did the siding, finish elect, finish plumbing, installed cabinets, did all trim/finish work, parking pad, yard, deck, etc......Falling off a ladder, pulling my ankle off my leg, breaking leg in 2 places and finishing off my bad knee was a little set back, but was back working 2 weeks later. (on crutches)

Advice: Talk to local Bld Dept and inspectors to find the very best people to draw your plans and recommend a general to do the foundation and framing. You can't frame it yourself.

After that, you become the general, but only hire subs that are highly respected in the local building community. Do what you can, and hire the best to do what you can't.

Before I did the cabin, I'd become an expert in each area in one month by reading up on the subject: One month, I'd study all plumbing books I could find, next month - electrical and so on....

Best of luck......

Cabin:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1364875364.jpg

I think it sounds fun David. A challenge that you can accomplish.


I see San Diego. I'm sure there is some excellent skilled labour from over the border to help out occassionally. I do full time renovating and haven't come across anything I can't do. Sometimes I give a builder guy $50 to come around and give a few tips but I'm so good now :rolleyes: I should be giving him tips.


The next one I do I'll build the whole house. I take the attitude most builders are a bunch of thickos and if they can build a house I sure can.




Another idea... Buy a really nice kitset house. It's just like building the whole thing yourself but the framing and trusses are already made and delivered. Plus it's easier to get the permits.

David, I live in east County and did what you are asking about & moved in toward the end of '09. However I retired just before I started building as "owner/builder" which was the County's classification for somebody building his/her own. I did everything from the design to the end product acting as the GC, and did some of the work myself (I'm still trying to finish up some things). To tell the truth in your situation, I'd go with the advice by some of the guys suggesting buying a fixer upper or a house that meets most of your desired criteria and remodel. Doing it the way I did was very demanding time wise. As it was, it took somewhere in the range of 3 to 4 years to finish. I have no idea how long it would have taken if I had tried while I was still working. I worked in constructon as a very young guy and still had a decent idea of lots of things. Working with contracts, budgets, managing people, and having to meet timelines, quotas, benchmarks before I retired was also a big help in lots of ways. If you want, PM me and I can send you my email address and phone number. As Randy said, I've heard numerous people say they would never attempt it again. YMMV, but I'd have to say I'd could do it again easily if I wanted.

If you decide to go through with it, I have a great plumber and drywaller that will go down there and do the heavy lifting for you. My electrical contractor is a maybe. They are two really sweet ladies that drive inspectors nuts (in a good way). I love those girls. They use to do a bunch of work for the music and movie industry type people. That's where I met them years ago. These people know building code well, plus, its all spec'd out in the approved plans. I have used them for the past 15 years, so no tricks. You just need to find them down there.

Most roofers are tough as nails to deal with, so let your general contractor deal with them and don't lose sleep over that.

Same here. Five years in and I've done:

Roof
Repaint
Landscaping all around
Yard
Finish garage
Finish basement
Add 3rd car garage and finish exterior
Paint every room
Some new carpet and flooring
New laundry room
Lots of other misc stuff
New HVAC (2 units)
New Anderson windows

What's left? Basically everything else! When I'm done we will have gutted and remodeled probably 90% of the house. The next big one for this year is a bigger new composite deck and new fence out back, and I also still need to finish my 3rd car garage and cut/frame the hole to combine it with my old 2 car. The kitchen is the only remaining monster, we are going to combine the existing kitchen and eat-in area into one big kitchen, I ran the plumbing and electrical before closing up the basement. Everything in the existing kitchen moves, gotta love the wife for making it easy.:rolleyes:

Two of my brothers have experienced the pro's and cons. One hired an architect and a builder, but he chose to micro-manage the supplies. He ran over budget and behind schedule. His connections did provide better pricing than the builder could have on the supplies though.

The other brother was a home builder for a large company, but he had to hire a GC per company policy. The plans were pre-approved, of course. He used the company to purchase the material and had his preferred subs to do the work. Where he saved was hiring my dad for $1 to act as the GC, sit in a chair on site, answer the phone and smoke cigars.

He sold about 3 years later for 85K more than he built it for. The home he now lives in was built in the same manner. He's made out like a bandit.

I have no experience, but wish you luck.

Remodeling vs. new build are two different beasts.

A remodel keeps the foundation and basic footprint.
Everything existing being "repaired" is "grandfathered".

No soil analysis/engineer study/EPA certs/planning commission/sewer routing/etc/etc.. before a single nail can be hammered.

Additions could be added later with more time and money and the shock has worn off.
At that point, however, your needs and perspective in life may have changed and more focused.

In either case, you'll want piece of mind.
Taxes still need to be drained from the budget, and security on the the build-site might keep you up at night.

We just completed construction of the guesthouse moved my parents in. Contractor cost will vary region to region, but got it done for about $90-100/sf. That is with a walkout basement for a 2 car garage, utility/mechanical room and a couple of small rooms. The upstairs is essentially a single story ranch. I busted my budget by adding a balcony and deck that I was planning for later, but it made sense to just do it. My initial plan was to get the building weather tight, then work on the interior, but my parents needed in sooner than later so I just bit the bullet and had the contractor finish the inside. I could have done it, but now way could I work a full time job and get it done as quickly.

I had to re-zone the property to get it done.

I recommend you talk to the building department about any site you have in mind and determine what you need to get together to make it happen. Do all this before you commit to a site or contractor. Your front end work will make it easy to go from concept to completion.

Here's the thread I started...before I built the house. I need to update it but it turned out much better than I expected.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/662885-home-builders-contractors-chime-please-guest-house-construction-cost.html

Unless you're brutally aware of budgetary matters, count on the project costing much more than anticipated. I've built custom homes for over twenty years now and once "the dream" becomes an actual framed thing, most often, the finishing decisions become much more elaborate and expensive to complete (compared to the original plan). You mentioned having a full time job and finishing the house in a couple of months after it being framed up.....well this reminds me of a client who had us build a 5000sq ft house to "lock up" about ten years ago. He was a "young" retired engineer (no requirement to go to work) in his mid fifties and he decided to finish the house himself. I said to him "I guess you know what you'll be doing for the next year or two". He responded "I bloody well hope not!" and went on to say he figured that it should be six months at the outside. About two years ago (after 8 years) I ran into he and his wife and asked how it turned out? His wife turned to me and said that it's still not done! I have to say did he ever look sheepish at that point! LOL. In my work that is merely the most illustrative example....this has happened many times, that is to say people underestimating the time and skill to finish a house and over estimating their available time to complete the task. A great GC is the way to go, a house is a large investment don't try to cheap out trying to save a few thousand k in a total project worth 100,000's of k. A good contractor asks the proper questions and steers the flow of the job to minimize "before completion reno's". Cheers and good luck

I've never built (or even partially built) my own home but know several people who have and I completely agree with the above statements. Because you're still working a full-time job, your EVERY spare minute will be devoted to working on the house...and this will go on seemingly FOREVER. Unless you & your wife can deal extremely well with stress, your relationship with your family will suffer ENORMOUSLY. Two couples I know who attempted this almost got divorced during the building process...and these people didn't work day jobs and didn't have any kids.
Building your own home is a very intriguing idea, but considering your situation with a full-time job and a family, I'd look seriously at going the livable remodel route.

In the event you do go ahead and build a custom home (or have it built), you may want to re-consider omitting a family room and a living room. Of course, this will only apply if the house will NEVER be re-sold, either by you or your kids. If you stray too far from what a potential buyer expects to see in your neighborhood, the appeal of the house will diminish...along with it's value.

Projects like this usually are never as easy as they seem. We've built three homes each one bigger and better than the last.

In this last house we decided to frame in and wire the basement, but not finish it. After 6 years we've just had the drywall installed in the basement. I wish we'd have just had it done six years ago.

What are you exposing yourself on for property tax going new versus remodel? In our state old homes receive huge discounts because the thinking is they require more maintenance.