opionions please.. jetta wagon TDI vs Gasser
 

so,

another VW Jetta thread from me

I want a new car, the 86 944 is running fine, but I spend a lot of time in the car and I'd like something quieter and maybe easier to get in and out of, and I've been out of college for 17 years :( and I've yet to buy a new car (motorcycle, different story)

the Jetta wagons look really practical

but which one? base models only in this comparison

jetta wagon gasser;

$20595
23/33 mpg
5 cylinder inline, no turbo
5 speed stick

jetta wagon tdi;

$25795
30/42 mpg
4 cylinder turbo diesel
5 speed stick

I just checked local fuel prices and diesel is now cheaper than premium :)

but an extra 5 G for a diesel :confused:

can I expect the diesel to really last a lot longer than the gasser? will maintanence be less with the oil burner? no plugs, plug wires, ignition system ect

add about 10% for the out the door price

We rented the TDI wagon on our last Germany trip. Drove it 2 week, very impressed. If I had to buy a new car right now I would seriosly consider it. Don't know how long we'd have to drive it to break even, but I really like this wagon platform.

I have a 2011 TDI sportwagen with the DSG. Plenty if torque and power and is a great car for road trips. Averaged 48 Mpg from NC to NY driving an average speed of 75 with a full load. Used 3/4 tank each way. If I were to sell I would only take a 4k deprecation hit, not bad after two years of ownership.

Plus I do not have to pay for emission inspections, just safety.

Only issue is the instrument cluster with the odometer crapped out (common issue with the new VW) so the mileage is off , but it extended the warranty.

I just did a couple hundred miles in a fairly new Jetta TDI and was impressed, it seemed to have plenty of power and got great mileage, the guy that owned it said he would break even on the cost over gas in a little over a year. It was quiet and comfortable.

My son has a Jetta TDI and loves it. Gets approx 50 MPG highway driving.

I've focused on buying Diesel vehicles because of the ethanol in gasoline. And knowing they are playing more and more with the gasoline formulas, which are not good for the engines, I'd rather have a diesel.

Assuming gas and diesel are $4/gallon

$5000 = $4*(miles)/33mpg-$4*(miles)/42mpg

miles=192000 on hwy

$5000 = $4*(miles)/23mpg-$4*(miles)/30mpg

miles=123214 in town

I own both diesel and gas vehicles and there is no doubt that diesel produces more mpg and the modern ones have almost none of the attributes the consumer in North America didn't buy...noisy, smelly, etc. Fifteen years ago when I first bought a diesel, the price of diesel was always much cheaper than regular...not so today. Around here and down the Pacific coast of the US ( at least seemingly on a recent trip) the price of diesel is almost always close to the price of premium. In this pricing environment (for 6-8 years or so) I'd start to wonder if after paying $5000 more initially, that it made sense to buy diesel in North America. I recently heard that at least one truck manufacturer (large trucks) is in the process of developing a gasoline engine because the economics of the diesel has swung so out of whack. On a recent trip to Europe I paid noticeably less for diesel than the posted for regular so it's no wonder that so many of their passenger vehicles are diesel. I'm sure the TDI is a great car but I'm not sure if the price difference makes any economic sense. Cheers

Make sure you read up on high pressure fuel pump failure (HPFP) on these new TDIs. It appears to be the intermediate shaft issue of the VW diesel world. You run a small risk of fuel pump failure and a very large repair bill due to the contamination of the fuel system with metal debris from the failed pump.

I have a 2011 Golf TDI with the 6 speed stick and am at 31k miles now. It has been a great car with no issues. The fuel pump failure issue has me worried to the point where I will re-evaluate the situation at 60k (end of drivetrain warranty).

As far as paying $5k more for the diesel, that's a non brainer IMHO:

- Resale is significantly higher, to the point where you may make all your money back down the line. The gas VWs really don't hold their value well at all.
- Between resale and fuel savings, you probably only have to drive half what Red Beard calculated for ROI mileage
- I am pretty sure the TDI comes with a higher trim level than base gas model, which also needs factoring in on the purchase price.

Let us know what you decide!

G

VW's best diesel is the older A4. By best I mean longest lasting and lowest cost of ownership. The new diesels are nicer to drive and smoother.

I'm on my second JSW TDI. The first was a 2009 that I sold privately in 2012. At the time of that sale it had 47k on it. The resale on the TDI's is stellar and the delta between my purchase price and selling was ~ $3.5K. At the time of sale I looked at the selling prices of the gasser JSW and cars with equivalent miles were selling for substantially less (like $3k - 5K less). The comment above about the weak resale on the gassers is 100% correct.

Over the course of those 47k miles I averaged 43mpg. That is a hand calculated/verified mpg number. Fuel cost was ~ $.08 a mile. This is real data, based on experience. It was a no-brainer to re-up and purchase the 2012. BTW - ZERO problems with the car(s).

Observation: Whenever I see someone ask a question like this - a high-post-count forum veteran will immediately post up some fundamentally flawed, secondary school level math. Resale is never considered and the real, "true cost" of a gallon of fuel is never even thought of...

pretty cheeky response from someone with 6 posts.

So assuming 14,000 miles per year and if all hi-way driving, your breakeven point on $5K is 13.7 years?

Doesn't seem like a great return.

If all you're looking at is the fuel costs, then yes. I do agree with "cheeky boy" that resale value at the time of expected sale should also be a factor. But it is not a one for one situation, since there is also a time value of money.

My prime reason for going diesel is explained above. I'm not doing it for the MPG.

Resale makes sense to add to the equation. Is diesel off the table for the new gasoline formulas? (ethanol, etc.)

Of course he could NPV (Net present value) that resale into the formula and that would account for the time value of money.

Diesel and ethanol do not mix without an emulsifier. It also creates a volatility and hazardous atmosphere issue, which diesel doesn't have at present. The primary thing that can be done to diesel is mandates of biodiesel. That can affect cost, but isn't much of a technical issue. The first successful fuel for diesels was peanut oil.

Diesel was actually trying to make his engine run on powdered coal!

Yep, NPV the resale difference, not to mention the inflation factors.

I've never read anything complimentary of the 5 cyl 2.5 unit... kinda noisy, rough, not particularly powerful or economical... On the Tdi side I just sold my 2012 Golf diesel. Mileage was impressive. Torque was nice... But after 6 months I was losing the will to live, and yes, there are fuel pump issues... Personally if it's a primary driver, I'd get the 2.0 Turbo, i.e neither of the above. That's chippable to ungoldly amounts of torque, it's decent on gas and no more expensive than the diesel. The diesel was like paddle shifters to me. Fun for a few days, then when the novelty wears off, you're stuck with a diesel car that understeers like a snow plow, shoes than smell of diesel fuel, and it's not all that "fun" to drive with a 4500 rpm redline (I could remember wrong)...

Then again I met a guy at VW service once, who was getting reimbursed for miles and drove 60K a year. He said his jetta Tdi had paid for itself twice over...
If your commute is not crazy, consider the 2.0T.

2.0T is not available for the Sportwagen.

Only the 2.5 Gasser and 2.0 TDI.

I've rented the TDI a few times in Europe. Dollars and cents aside, the Turbo diesel is pretty addictive. That's the I'd go if I was gonna keep it for at least 200,000 miles.......

what does post count have to do with the level of expertise of the answer???

re the OP:

- you need to drive them both over the same road - do it back to back

wind out both motors; tests both for mid-range torque; passing from 50 to 70 mph, also

Have owned a TDI DSG JSW since new in '09. Really nice car. Thought I read VW is dumping the 2.5L 5cyl. in Jettas starting 2014 with a re-design then as well.

Am closing in on 30K miles with a 2011 JSW TDI DSG (xyz). Great car - zero complaints.

Something else to consider in the small diesel market is the soon to be released 2014 Mazda 6 w/ 2.2. No reliability record to review but overall a neat package delivering 56 mpg (from reviews... not verified). Re-thinking the diesel design and emissions - lower compression, two-stage turbo, less after exhaust components, etc. Not sure what the price will be but the similar car but with gas engine has an approx. base of $21,000.

Review: 2014 Mazda 6 GT Skyactiv-G | M.G. Reviews

As an owner, I hear this from time to time. Usually it's someone making small talk at a filling station. "My friend has one and he says he gets 50mpg." It's not gonna happen in real world driving. Under optimal conditions in the flats and at 55 mph, maybe. Realistically, it's gonna be 41-43 mpg highway.

Disagree. Easy can get 50 mpg in flat terrain going 65-70. I averaged 42 mpg in daily commuting in LA. Half of it driving at freeway speeds, the other stop and go.

G

If I reset the MPG while driving 65 mph in my F250, it shows I'm getting 21-22 MPG. So, yeah it will do that in the flat, running on cruise control, already up to speed, etc.

But it will not average that!

Going pure hwy miles I think I've gotten as high as 45mpg. City is around 35, mixed somewhere in between depending on the details. I've only seen 50+mpg going downhill :D

You can say what you want but you are full of ****. I know what I'm speaking of and my son does as well.

isn't the 2.5 getting replaced with the old 1.8 t but with 170hp?....

My real world experience aside, you're effectively saying VW is sandbagging their EPA ratings (42mpg for the JSW). Why would any manufacturer today do that?

Further, what would anyone stand to gain by saying the car that they personally own is worse on fuel than it is? I really wish it got 50mpg. I'd write it if it did. It simply doesn't.

There are tons of reputable reports of 40-43 mpg. I've never read one that said 50 real world mpg. I think there would be plenty of them if they existed, don't you?

And why are you being a dick?

This is from my 2001 TDI. I drive a mix of interstate highway and town, with some rural back roads.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365037583.jpg


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1365037868.jpg

The bottom one is the oldest, and it starts at 280,000 miles

I think we are off track here.

Widgeon13 is talking about a 1.9 TDI not the newer 2.0 TDI.

My charts above are for my 1.9 TDI, our 2.0 TDI does not get 50 mpg it averages around 45 mpg with the 6spd manual.

I think these care start to get good mileage around 100,000 miles. It seams they get a little better with more miles.

That could be Peppy. A new sportwagen is heavier, w/ wider tires and (presumably) a bit more drag w/ DSG. Don't know about aerodynamic drag. In the end, it's an academic argument/conversation as anyone can write whatever and it doesn't change reality. They're all pretty nice cars and I think the TDI/DSG combo is pretty entertaining to drive as long as the HPFP remains intact...although some speculate that the HPFP problem is really a fueling issue.

To do it again, I'd want to drive a '14 w/2.0T and TDI back-to-back. I hope the '14's keep the JSW's true indep. rear suspension. Somehow, that seems more elegant than a beam.

ahh... many good posts, with a tiny bit of hate and discontent..

I commute 600 miles a week, and I go to Arizona ever other month,

I'm thinking diesel is the way to go

and I plan on keeping the car for at least 10 years

No-brainer then. I commued about that distance for almost a year in my TDI and it sure was nice to only fill up once a week to the tune of $50.

And one last comment on the money opportunity cost ... I get .75% on my savings right now, so I'd rather have those $5k work towards my gas bill.

G

I get 47 mpg over the last 40,000 miles on my 2001. And I drive my car fairly hard, and at 75 mph.

AS luck would have it, I turned in my Audi for service and got a jetta 2.5 loaner... There is not a single redeeming quality to the 2.5 engine. It's noisy and gutless, and it makes the Tdi seem like a piece of jewelry in comparison...

great...but I think the differences between A4 and A5 TDI mpg was covered.

Anyone else see the claims for 65 mpg diesels?

Mercedes-Benz A-Class driven full road test car review - BBC Top Gear - BBC Top Gear

That's in the UK

1 imperial gallon = 1.2 US gallon

So 65 mpg imp = 54 mpg US

G

Ah, makes sense now. Thanks! Is 54 what we expect from the diesels in the US? I didn't see anything that high.