Gun Laws - "background checks"

[Rusty Heap]

without this getting tossed into PARF, all over the press and news and reform gun laws / restrictions, people are throwing around the term "Background Check" almost as much as the now old-hat defunct term "Fiscal Cliff".......or did the government not Jump The Laser Guided Fiscal Shark off the cliff?


So does anyone have facts and data, or a weblink, to what a "background" check is?

Or is it basically the same review of your life history that you'd get screened while applying for a concealed weapons permit at your local sheriffs office?


facts and data would be great to share with everyone.

[widgeon13]

I'm just guessing but I'd say they will define it after they approve the bill. Or to use a Pelosi-ism, you have to approve it to find out what's in it.

[John Rogers]

I would say it will be like we do in CA with the DROS form or Dealer Record of Sale. If you look at the CA DOJ website at: Bureau of Firearms | State of California - Department of Justice - Kamala D. Harris Attorney General it explains what we have to do. The FFL I use has the form on an iPad and all records are electronic now. There is a fee for the check also. The biggest issue is the record keeping and some of the shops I have seen are amazingly sloppy so I can not imagine how they stay in business.

[HardDrive]

I heard about this deal over 6 weeks ago. The NRA told the puppets a long time ago what would and would not fly. Their big sticking point was that the background checks should not be used to create a database, and that private individuals should not be required to keep record of sales after the background check was completed. So much of what is presented to us at politics is simply theater.

[id10t]

The buyer fills out the Form 4473 - this form has changed over the years, most recent now asks if buyer is hispanic. http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

Then the dealer eyeballs it and makes sure the questions are all answered correctly, there are no abbreviations for dates, etc.

Then the dealer calls either a state department or the Feds for NCIC clearance. Here in Florida, they ask name, date of birth, social (if provided, it is still optional), and if it is a long gun, hand gun, or "other" (bare receiver). Then they put you on hold for a few minutes, polish their nails, talk to their coworkers, and eventually come back and giggle "whoops, forgot about you on hold". Then they use the magic words - "approved", "delayed" or "denied", followed by a long reference number. The dealer logs this response on the 4473, and then the customer leaves with the gun or comes back in a few days for it.

Approved - duh. Give the guy his gun and let him go on with his day.

Delayed - law says that if a sale is delayed, the feds have 3 (or 5?) days to get back to the shop to stop the transaction - if no word from them, the shop can transfer the gun or not, depending on shop owner policies. Many/most local gun shops will transfer at that point, most big box stores (wally world, cabelas, etc) won't.

Denied - someone has been a bad boy/girl. The customer can get a reference number, and with that contact the ATF/FBI to find out *why* they were denied - common names, close birth dates, etc. are causes for a lot of initial denials. If it becomes problematic, the buyer can apply for a UPIN, which involves finger prints and a longer FBI background check like getting a concealed carry permit. Once they have the UPIN, they can reference it on the 4473 and approvals happen.

On a fed level, *any* interstate transfer requires a FFL at the receiving end, and the 4473 and phone call. Some states require it as well for just pistols, and a few for all firearms.

Face to face sales are legal and unencumbered on a fed level, as long as both parties are legal to own and are residents of the state the transfer is taking place in. This is the "gunshow loop hole". All a gunshow does is get a bunch of like minded folks, some with cash, some with guns, all together in the same place. No different than putting an ad in your local classifieds, etc.


I'm not a FFL holder, but a buddy of mine is and he lets me call in the bg check for my own purchases.

[Rickysa]

Well....the first of this month, a fella in New York (state) had to turn in his guns and permit to the local police because....





in his past he took medication for anxiety.

[BK911]

I was denied because I was put on 6 months probation ~25 years ago for a bar fight, and there weren't any records indicating I successfully completed the probation. Trying to appeal was painful. But sir, since the incident, I have been honorably discharged from the Navy AND the Army (where I was REQUIRED to fire a weapon), held a top secret clearance, and currently work for the government. No dice, patiently waiting for the expungement.

So my green card holding wife purchased the guns since all she had to prove was that she was at the same address for over 90 days.

Seriously.

[Tobra]

Don't think anyone can tell you what they might entail. I can pretty much guarantee that not a single crime will be prevented by them and it will not keep any criminals from getting a gun.

[ZOA NOM]

The only certainty is that a confiscation program cannot occur without a database of gun owners, which would be very difficult to create unless you convince the public to submit to background checks, and simply retain the data. After all, how can you run a background check without a database? No thanks, the government has no need to know of any connection between me and any weapon.

[Rick Lee]

It doesn't mean you've been bad if you get denied. You could have the same name as someone else on the no-buy list. Lots of folks are on there who don't deserve to be, just like the no-fly list. You can be on that list with just an accusation of domestic violence.

The background checks are run by the FBI, but are totally a garbage-in/garbage-out thing. If a nutbag has a long histry of mental health issues, chances are very high that his state never reported it to NICS. So he'll have no problem passing a NICS check. Obviously, no one ever answers "yes" to the questions that would make you a prohibited possessor (are you a fugitive, illegal user of drugs, wife beater, illegal alien, convicted felon, etc.). So NICS weeds out the people with unfortunate names or who are too dumb or lazy to lie, get a straw buyer, take their chances or buy on the black market. Rest assured, no would-be bad guy has ever been denied in NICS and then decided he just wasn't going to be able to get a gun and so had better give up committing crimes.

No one has even proposed making NICS checks more thorough, so making more people go through them is going to stop the next mass shooter just as much as NICS stopped Loughner, Cho, Holmes, etc.

[Taz's Master]

6,000,000 transactions. 72,000 delayed and turned over to the ATF to investigate. 13 convictions.

[on2wheels52]

Originally Posted by Taz's Master

6,000,000 transactions. 72,000 delayed and turned over to the ATF to investigate. 13 convictions.

What was the time frame for those numbers, so far this year, or perhaps last month?
But yes, I am a bit torqued that ALL the "denied" applicants aren't prosecuted. Doesn't make me feel a valued part of the system.

Most of what id10t said about NICS is true.

I have it that most of the NICS records are purged every 30 days but I expect that somewhere a copy of them all are around.

If there is a silver lining to the dark cloud, remember that they only ask if the transaction is for a hand gun or long gun (or the infrequent 'other'). No make, model, or serial #. If THEY want that they have to contact me (us) and wait for us to come up with the hand written form or A&D record.
Jim

[widgeon13]

Originally Posted by BK911

I was denied because I was put on 6 months probation ~25 years ago for a bar fight, and there weren't any records indicating I successfully completed the probation. Trying to appeal was painful. But sir, since the incident, I have been honorably discharged from the Navy AND the Army (where I was REQUIRED to fire a weapon), held a top secret clearance, and currently work for the government. No dice, patiently waiting for the expungement.

So my green card holding wife purchased the guns since all she had to prove was that she was at the same address for over 90 days.

Seriously.

Wow, incredible story. Hope you get it eventually.

[Hoots]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

What was the time frame for those numbers, so far this year, or perhaps last month?

In 2010 6,037,394 firearm transfers were made using the NICS. 72,000 NICS requests (1% of request) resulted in denying the transaction. Of those 72,659 denials, 62 resulted in charges being filed. 13 of those cases resulted in a guilty verdict. Of those +72,000 request that were denied, 34,459 were denied because of Felony indictment or conviction, and 13,862 were fugitives. SO IF 48,321 FELONS & FUGITIVES TRIED TO OBTAIN GUNS, THEN WHY WERE ONLY 13 PROSECUTED? This is why stronger background checks will not work, since the current laws are not enforced. But, it will make the DEMs feel like they did something.

Follow the link for the source and more info.

Enforcement of the Brady Act, 2010: Federal and State Investigations and Prosecutions of Firearm Applicants Denied by a NICS Check in 2010

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Don't think anyone can tell you what they might entail. I can pretty much guarantee that not a single crime will be prevented by them and it will not keep any criminals from getting a gun.

Yep..............

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Don't think anyone can tell you what they might entail. I can pretty much guarantee that not a single crime will be prevented by them and it will not keep any criminals from getting a gun.

Reducing or preventing crime is not the goal of the gun grabbers. But it's a good rallying call to get the gun ignorant onboard for more gun laws. Anytime you hear a politician utter the words "common sense," be very, very skeptical.