Happened on my old DB4 when I rebuilt the engine. Years before I had installed a line from the brake reservoir to the M/C as best as I could with the engine in the car. With the engine out, I decided to replace the brake line and put it in the the "correct" location. It was a very glaring incorrect install for a Concours. I did the push thing and bled the brakes and when I put the engine back in I found the M/C was leaking. It delayed my test driving the car with the rebuilt engine for something like two weeks while I sourced out and got a Castrol/Girling M/C rebuild kit.

I found that it is better for your marriage to buy a power bleeder and keep the "up and down" to other areas of the house. :)

Seriously though, the master cylinder can go belly up from the piston being pushed into unused territory when pumping it. A power bleeder is much safer to the master cylinder IMHO.

G

My own $.02:

Go ahead and drain the fluid first. Place a brick under the brake pedal to keep it from going all the way to the floor.

The Craftsman flare wrench is a POS. I use a huge crescent wrench, tightened as hard as I can get it. Those brake fittings can be not quite precisely the size that they're supposed to be, then you end up rounding off the fittings and having to buy new hard lines anyway.

Replace pads, pins, and rotors together. Take photos before disassembly.

Replace fluid for the initial fill with Cheapo stuff, then bleed with good stuff. It won't matter what color you use.

I like the Mityvac because it's good for filling and re-filling the system. You might need a quart of fluid. You may need to do final bleeding with the pedal.

Use a brake pad spreader to get the calipers to the open position without spreading the calipers too far.

Remove brick after final pedal bleeding.

If at any point, you are forcing parts to go together, then you are doing it wrong. Brake parts are precisely made, and at no point should you be forcing pads, pins, etc to go into place.

If you do two-man brake bleeding, the skilled person is on the caliper, not on the pedal. A simple system of pump the pedal 10 times and hold is all you need for the pedal. The person at the caliper should open and then quickly shut the bleed screw.

I've always had great luck with just taking the bleeder out, replace the line and / or caliper, put it back together with the bleeder out and let gravity bleed it for me. Just make sure that you keep the MC full, and do one side at a time. This doesn't work maybe one out of twenty times, and you don't need a second helper. As long as you don't touch the pedal it won't move the proportioning valve, and you'll be fine. When you get clean fluid with no bubbles coming out, put the bleeder back in, let the fluid come out of the bleeder then tighten it down. When both sides are done, check the pedal.

if you have to do the whole bleed thing, run a clear line out of the bleeder screw and submerge into a bottle filled with clean brake fluid.

can't suck air that way.

rjp

I am hesitant to call stainless braided lines bling. I run quality ones on my track cars, and I have never had a brake line failure (touch wood). I have seen failures on rubber line equipped cars.

I am not saying they are better, but on an older car, I think they are a good upgrade over stock, especially older, perhaps worn, rubber lines. They tend to be inexpensive.

My $0.02:

Braided lines are good for track cars because they resist debris and will be replaced as part of routine maintenance - rubber lines are more than fine for street cars and show cracks, wear, etc. so they can be replaced when it is needed.

I'm a huge fan of the Motive pressure bleeder. No risk of sucking air, great for moving lots of fluid through the system. You can do all the flushing with a gallon of basic brake fluid, then when all is clear and good, switch over to a higher quality fluid. Brake fluid is cheap, crap in the lines and stuck in the calipers is bad.

I understand that in Canada they are required to change the brake fluid at regular intervals. It can break down with time and heavy use.

The advantage of using a different color new fluid is you are sure when the new stuff comes thru the lines.

One thing not yet mentioned is to start bleeding at the wheel that farthest from the M C, and work your way to the nearest last. Think flush with new fluid, rather than drain and replace. Less air in the lines, the better

There may be some quirks with the assembly of any brake system, so it a good idea to use some reference material (a particular angle of the piston top comes to mind)

Scott We will be happy to have you come and stay at our place for your next trip over. Just give us a shout when you have a time in mind.

Cheers Richard

What about a disk brake spreader? Any preference in that type of tool?

Are you supposed to put grease on the backside of the pads (vaguely remember that from somewhere WAY back...)

I have to confess... my last disk brake pad replacement was on my dad's 72 Oldsmobile when I was about 18... think I used a wood wedge as a "disk brake spreader" :rolleyes:

I do have a shop manual I will study first... and asking the good folks over on Miata.net for tips.

Thanks all,

Get a giant C-Clamp- more uses afterwards. If you are hell bent on getting into it this deep (you haven't given us the specifics on the overall condition of the car /age/ etc) - if it was me and trying to avoid the whole "air in line" debacle that can happen-

Pop cap off M/C wrap towel around it- when you compress the calipers fluid could come out.

replace pads / rotors, clean everything good, replace rubber and use silicone grease on sliders ("syl glyde") check ur wheel bearings.

take turkey baster to M/C take old fluid out, then refill with CLEAN fluid

replace your brake lines one at a time while keeping eye on M/C fluid level don't let it go empty.

gravity bleed, keep eye on m/c. Motive is nice too if you want to spend the $$$$ on it.

rjp

actually last time I did the MOtive on my 911 it was about a gallon to get it perfect...

rjp

Scott: Here's what I use on the Porsche. Should work fine for your application.
WESTWARD Disc Brake Pad Spreader - Brake Tools - 32J060|32J060 - Grainger Industrial Supply

I'm not saying this is what you would use when you rebuild the calipers (see Randy's post above). I'm saying any time you change pads, you want to use this tool. Basically you remove the caliper, place new pads in, and spread the pads until they just barely clear the new rotor. Now you have the gap set so that the pads almost drag. Otherwise, if you leave daylight between the pads and rotor, then your pedal will be low and you'll have too much travel before the pads hit the rotors.

I use a bigger spreader for the 1-ton truck, which is available at any O'Reily's. The first one is available at most FLAPs, but I know that Pep Boys has it.

And of course, buy some clear refrigerator hose at a hardware store like OSH. I think it's 1/4" or so but don't quote me on that, I don't recall exactly. The clear hose is to bleed into a container like a mayonaisse jar with a hole punched in the lid. You can bleed into dirty fluid, it doesn't matter. You just want to prevent air from sucking back into the bleeder, and you don't want brake fluid to spray everywhere.

Use the Motive to get the gross air out, then go to pedal bleeding. You'll only need a quart of fluid, I promise.

The Motive one is on my list of things to get, heard it's great for a one man job.

Good luck

Oh, duh... I have clamps for woodworking... the type with the squeeze handle... that should work fine?

Want a motive bad, but have to buy a adapter that almost doubles the price... and pretty sure I can count on one hand how many brake jobs I will do in my lifetime. May splurge for a mightyvac...

Condition is the disks NEED to be replaced... brake lines are OK but original from 1996 so "as long as I'm in there" I will go for the "bling".

I want the $1500 big brake package... downgraded to a real world $400 slotted OEM size disks/SS line "performance" kit

Hope this isn't too much "bling" ...:D

This kit may be in your range.

Flyin' Miata : Chassis : Brakes : 1994-02 brake upgrade kit

Scott, you don't need a Motive. Not really. You might recruit a person to keep filling the MC reservoir, or you can check it as you work and re-fill it maybe 3-4 times.

No you need a screw type C-clamp- you'll probably ruin the wood one- not strong enough.. It'll take a bit of pressure to reset the caliper. I typically clamp the caliper and squish the piss out of it first, then unbolt the caliper, and then compress the piston all the way using the caliper and one of the old brake pads.

Remove the retaining screws or whatever (if any) from the rotor, install new rotor slap it all back together after you hosed everything down with brakekleen (isn't that **** awesome?) and syl-glyde.

The mityvac sux. I'd avoid that thing. Do the gravity bleed thing instead.

Bingo. Just work fast while pulling brake lines and you are cool. One operation at a time if you are a rookie. Brakes, verify OK operation, then go to lines.

rjp

Very close... but to save a few bucks going with this:

Mazda Miata Parts & Accessories at MiataMania.com