1969 911S Targa

[126coupe]

The dis-assembly continues

[enzo1]

Cool!

[tevake]

Yep , off to a good start. Great that you have the space to store the parts as they come off the car and keep them out of the way.
Is the tub turning out to be in good condition? Much rust to be dealt with?

Thanks for posting, it will be fun to watch it come along.

Cheers Richard

[Bill Douglas]

Is that at home. All that space I mean?

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by tevake

Yep , off to a good start. Great that you have the space to store the parts as they come off the car and keep them out of the way.
Is the tub turning out to be in good condition? Much rust to be dealt with?

Thanks for posting, it will be fun to watch it come along.

Cheers Richard

A little rust up front, changing a lower panel, other than that all is good

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Is that at home. All that space I mean?

This my man cave where all my cars are stored, 4,200 square feet

[70SATMan]

Are you still planning to put the aluminum engine lid on it? If you are going for a stock restoration you should source the proper 69 lid and grill.

[126coupe]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Are you still planning to put the aluminum engine lid on it? If you are going for a stock restoration you should source the proper 69 lid and grill.

The aluminum deck lid is proper for this car, some had it, some did not. The grill is proper that was on the car.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I had my own 69S barn find 2 weeks ago, NOS owner's manuals, 1 from Vasek Polak.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by 126coupe

The aluminum deck lid is proper for this car, some had it, some did not. The grill is proper that was on the car.

Where are you getting your info????? To the best of my knowledge the aluminum lid came out on the 70S and is physically built for the five bar grill configuration.

The 69 lid is unique and is built for the three bar grill configuration. The 70 parts manuals clearly call out the aluminum lid versus steel and I do have original 69 parts manuals. I'll do a double check tonight in my 69 manuals but, my suggestion would be to poll the Early S Registry. Lot of 69S owners over there and I don't recall ever seeing or hearing of an aluminum three bar lid. Even on the 69S.

The car deserves a proper restoration either way and I'm not a purist. I love hot rods but, if the intent is to be a factory correct 69S then this is one of those details that is more than a nit pick.

[Zeke]

I did a little research this morning on the subject. As with all things Porsche, there will always be discussion and doubt. What turns up is that Targas were maybe less likely to get the AL deck lid than coupes. In fact, a thread on the Early S Reg states that most '69-'71 S coupes got the AL lid. They don't talk much about the Targa except to say that it happened after '60

"Standard from 69-71 on most coupes. I only base my conclusions over the last nearly twenty years on perfect original unrestored cars with ZERO paint work, and I have taken note on each one. In nearly every case you will find the aluminum deck lid. The lids are fragile and suffered from damage and were likely thus replaced with steel. The rear wiper was not an issue with the alloy lid nor was the A/C, my A/C 71S has the best shape alloy lid I have owned. In nearly every case of "my car doesn't have one" or "my car has one" the car never has original paint (even thought the owner cant tell the difference) and/or little documented ownership history with interviews of every owner, so I throw those cases out the window along with "my car had a CD player, a special 2.5 liter 400hp engine with limited slip from the factory". You have to adopt a standard with ZERO compromise on authenticity. If I see a 69-71 S coupe with no alloy lid, my response is that it is missing. If you dont agree than show me that the car is 100% original paint with full ownership documentation with past owner interviews. If you cant than I will show you the factory manuals and several example of the standard. The standard in my opinion on nearly all 69-71 S coupes is alloy, so if you dont have one, then get one.......besides any guy with a 69-71 S coupe with no alloy lid will only make excuses..... until he is naked in the shower alone wishing he had one.....that is the acid test to the standard." —schmidt

Aluminum Deck Lid Trivia?

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by Zeke

..... until he is naked in the shower alone wishing he had one.....that is the acid test to the standard."[/I] —schmidt

This applies to life in so many ways.

[tevake]

It must really be a challenge preparing a car for concourse shows with the lack of definitive detailed info on the correct configuration.

While its not my thing, I do appreciate that folks put lots of efforts to get it right.
Are the judges of the big shows consistent in their opinions on these grey areas?

Do you have to check who is doing the judging to know of your chances?

Cheers Richard

[126coupe]

My .02. Being around low production cars most my life, this is what I know after speaking with several 300SL Gullwing restorers. This rings true with many cars in the 1000-1400 productions numbers. What happens on the production line if there might be a shortage of certain parts and the same part that happens to be aluminum IS installed. That certain Gullwing may have a bumper-ette, maybe not? I did extensive research on the placement of under the hood decals on several cars and the decals are usually in different places.
This being true with Porsche body panels may be true, maybe not?? That being said the Aluminum deck lid is going on this car, the steel one is going on my office wall perfectly restored so I can always swap um out.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by Zeke

I did a little research this morning on the subject. As with all things Porsche, there will always be discussion and doubt. What turns up is that Targas were maybe less likely to get the AL deck lid than coupes. In fact, a thread on the Early S Reg states that most '69-'71 S coupes got the AL lid. They don't talk much about the Targa except to say that it happened after '60

"Standard from 69-71 on most coupes. I only base my conclusions over the last nearly twenty years on perfect original unrestored cars with ZERO paint work, and I have taken note on each one. In nearly every case you will find the aluminum deck lid. The lids are fragile and suffered from damage and were likely thus replaced with steel. The rear wiper was not an issue with the alloy lid nor was the A/C, my A/C 71S has the best shape alloy lid I have owned. In nearly every case of "my car doesn't have one" or "my car has one" the car never has original paint (even thought the owner cant tell the difference) and/or little documented ownership history with interviews of every owner, so I throw those cases out the window along with "my car had a CD player, a special 2.5 liter 400hp engine with limited slip from the factory". You have to adopt a standard with ZERO compromise on authenticity. If I see a 69-71 S coupe with no alloy lid, my response is that it is missing. If you dont agree than show me that the car is 100% original paint with full ownership documentation with past owner interviews. If you cant than I will show you the factory manuals and several example of the standard. The standard in my opinion on nearly all 69-71 S coupes is alloy, so if you dont have one, then get one.......besides any guy with a 69-71 S coupe with no alloy lid will only make excuses..... until he is naked in the shower alone wishing he had one.....that is the acid test to the standard." —schmidt

Aluminum Deck Lid Trivia?

Schmidt is pretty passionate and at the time he was grooming himself for a PPI expert side business for big money but, he has also been wrong before. He was also convinced that the 71S did not have sport seats Standard and the standard seats as Optional... until he was convinced otherwise in part by information I showed him out of the Porsche parts manuals. While I agree that parts got used up, sometimes substituted and that changes were made in the middle of a model year I don't think this is the case with the 69S and aluminum lids/valances. Gonna dig out my 69 manuals now...

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by 126coupe

This being true with Porsche body panels may be true, maybe not?? That being said the Aluminum deck lid is going on this car, the steel one is going on my office wall perfectly restored so I can always swap um out.

I didn't think your steel lid was correct either, looked like a five bar lid in the early pics you posted. Got any recent detail pics?

[daepp]

Why would Porsche go to the expense of having just an aluminum hood? Why not the bonnet or the doors - could it have made that big of a difference?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Good lord, the only way this thing is supposed to have a 5-bar aluminum decklid is if you are in the shower, look down and can't see your penis.

The body section of my 69-70 parts catalog says one is available for E and S models. And my 71 body section says the same.

The good news is you can get the requisite oohs and aahs with the Al but still have the proper one too.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by daepp

Why would Porsche go to the expense of having just an aluminum hood? Why not the bonnet or the doors - could it have made that big of a difference?

In 70 they also played with an aluminum hood, door skins, fenders, front bumper (non spoiler) and rear bumpers but, did not end up on any production cars. There are rumors of a couple of "Base Model" 70 Esses which were considered the liteweight model which might have been fitted with additional alum but, German delivery and again...rumors... The S model we are familiar with is the "Optioned" out S model for 70.

Most of that alum stuff was used on a couple of early STs but, soon migrated to fiberglass. The only aluminum that made it into the production cars was the engine lid and the valance. Mainly to improve the car's weight distribution. The rear bumpers probably didn't make the cut for DOT crash safety reasons.

[RWebb]

why is this thread in OT?