PMP / CAPM Certification - worth it?

[Brando]

Now that I am shifting into my new role (after a 2-month delay) I am exploring certs that can really increase my marketability. I've seen Project Management PMP certification thrown around a lot, but I don't have the college degree to be eligible - I'm about 3 years of courses away.

That opens up the CAPM cert which is geared heavily to experience plus I alreadyexceed the requirements.

Before I drop some coin (or convince my employer to), are these certs really worth the cost and time? I have not seen any real differentiation between those with and without yet.

Can anyone shed some light on this?

Thank you.

[A930Rocket]

Subscribed. I've been looking at them as well.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I haven't seen these credentials really hold much value based on my experience with interviewing and hiring candidates for various positions and projects over the last several years. A particular individual's practical experience with developing, administering and maintaining rigid adherence to schedules and budgets (and employing meaningful metrics to show it) is vastly more important than a lot of theory about it. Sure, it's nice if someone understands the theory, but it's no substitute for a portfolio of successful, well-run projects.

Your mileage may vary, but I've found the candidates that strut in wearing these credentials on their sleeves to be (usually) very wonkish and apt to attempt to lose themselves in the sea of corporate bureaucracy rather than actually be effective PMs. Maybe it's less pronounced in other manufacturing industries but in mine (capital construction projects) if someone can't get in immediately and start proving their own value through what they produce, they don't last too long. If it's not self-evident and a person needs lots of pie charts to "prove" they're an asset, they usually aren't. If their projects run smoothly and track spending projection curves and schedules closely, their effectiveness speaks for itself and they usually find success and refine the tools of managing the budgets and schedules along the way based on their experiences and discussions with their peers.

One of the things I get into is making sure that PMs aren't giving themselves too easy of a time by padding schedules and project budgets at the outset to guarantee their own success. In that sort of role, theory is certainly helpful but again, it comes down to a practical approach - looking at available empirical data on similar projects and comparing that to the schedules and budgets that are being put forth for new projects of similar complexity, type, scope, etc. Not every PM needs to know or care about all that.

I guess if depends what you expect to do but personally I haven't been all that impressed with the people who hold these credentials - they come off as (very) expensive clubs to belong to and little more. As with a lot of these sorts of certifications they appear to involve a lot of buzzwords and jargon and mystical spins on what really is just common sense. Then again, maybe other industries see more value in what they represent but I've been largely underwhelmed.

[djmcmath]

I'll second PoP's opinion: it's a neat cert, but, at least in my case, it didn't teach me anything I didn't already know. Ok, that may not be totally true -- the class my company paid for put me in a room with a bunch of other PM types, and there was some small amount of mentoring that went on there. But fundamentally, the cert merely documented that I knew the language, format, and PMI-standardized way of talking about projects.

[Mark Howard]

Continuing to support PoP's well written analysis above, I worked for a Fortune 250 (URS Corporation) for almost 10 years as the Business Development Director in my region. i often interviewed PM candidates as part of the hiring team for the office. As PoP referenced above, it was much more about the person than the certification. URS has their own PM certification program that teaches a new PM the URS way, and its pretty good, but the PM has to be able to put it into practical use. PMP helps more with the parctical use part, but I found the best PMs had a good balance of leadership skills, business knowledge, and lastly PM fundamentals.

IMHO, if you have time to get the certification, great, I just wouldn't hang my hat on it being the end all, be all.

[Z-man]

I too agree with PoP's assessment - those who come into a company with as many acronyms after their names typically focus on the cert instead of the substance behind it.

That said, IMHO, MBA > PMP. An MBA typically includes a few classes related to project management, such as Operations Management, Project Management, and Strategy & Policy. And these classes typically strive to connect project management to the bigger picture of the business work.

But these days, having an MBA is just a check mark in the interviewing process: having an MBA, or a PMP, or any other certification typically gets you to the next step in the interviewing process. In the second phase of this process, a good interviewer can determine if you just have certifications/degrees, or if you also have real-world experience and are able to apply what you have learned. Typically, good companies have good interviewers, and these folks can see through the BS right away.

If you are looking at other certifications, ITIL (Information Technology Infrastructure Library) certification may be another one to check out, especially if you are looking to get into Information Technology, or work for an IT-centric company.

One good point about certifications, adult education, and getting degrees after being in the workforce is this: management sees that you have an interest in furthering yourself, and that you are willing to learn. This is an attribute that many companies look for in an employee, no matter what the position is.

My 0.42,
-Z-man.

[vbaron]

In the tech business there are companies that require or look more favorable on a candidate having a PMP. My group in a very large multi-national corporation requires the Project Managers to have or obtain one. For companies with a well defined and complex development process (i.e. lots of paperwork), it helps to have people who are trained in processes, which is one of the goals of the PMP. I had obtained my PMP certification about 6 years ago, but have let it lapse, as I am now a Group Head. The PMP really wasn't that difficult to obtain, I did all of the coursework online and took the test at a testing facility. More common sense and "thinking" in the the PMP process than anything.

Vin

[12own911]

Agreed. I had a PMP and let it go... It did not do much for me. The PMP said that I studied and passed a test but did not help me when the company I had worked for over 11 years decided to change processes but refused to teach the new processes to me. I changed groups and let the PMP go. It was not required for any work I was doing and I have a few months left to reinstate it before I have to test again. I need to look into it again though as I might be changing positions again. As stated above, all it gets me is an interview.

[fintstone]

I hire guys as Program Managers for the Federal Government. The only folks impressed by the PMP seem to be people who have it themself. Not only do I (and other hring officials) not find it valuable, their insistence that it makes them know more than everyone else is very annoying and usually makes it difficult for them to work with others who are more talented/skilled but don't have the magic PMP credential. In my business, you would do better not to waste your time. We have our own programs to certify personnel.

[Brando]

Well, that answers the PMP / CAPM question. Thank you all for the practical real-world feedback. My current employer forces us (if we want to be successful managers/team leads) to manage our teams' processes and individual projects with timelines, steering committees and budgets.

Now for the bigger question - What about 6 Sigma?

[fintstone]

Six Sigma will add to your experience. There are some high-level jobs that are specifically looking experienced managers and Engineers with 6 Sigma.

[Z-man]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I hire guys as Program Managers for the Federal Government. The only folks impressed by the PMP seem to be people who have it themself. Not only do I (and other hring officials) not find it valuable, their insistence that it makes them know more than everyone else is very annoying and usually makes it difficult for them to work with others who are more talented/skilled but don't have the magic PMP credential. In my business, you would do better not to waste your time. We have our own programs to certify personnel.

I love it when I see folks with "PMP" after their names in their email signatures. It's like they accomplished a huge undertaking. While I understand it is a certification process with a test at the end, it does not equal a college master's degree, or better yet, a PhD. It is a certification process with a test at the end -- can get it done in less than a year. I don't have a PMP, but work with some people who do -- and despite their certification, some have no clue about basic project management concepts such as critical path and lag time. (I had a PM who would state a task is on the critical path if it was 'late' in his estimation, even though didn't affect the end date of the project. )

Originally Posted by Brando

Now for the bigger question - What about 6 Sigma?

Again, in my opinion, MBA > 6 Sigma.

Having just completed my MBA, I learned about project management (probably learned more than in the PMP certification process), as well as 6 Sigma and all the other business processes, methods, and buzz-words. While I may not have a PMP or 6 Sigma certification now, I have a deeper understanding of the big picture of business.

These certifications are great, but they aren't a substitute for an MBA, or practical, real world experience. If you move onto a company that doesn't use PMP or 6 Sigma as a framework for its change management process, then what? On the other hand, an MBA is more universally recognized as giving someone a better understanding of the business world, especially when coupled with real-world experience.

That said, I plan on getting a PMP certificaiton, as well as an ITIL certificaiton, since that applies to my line of work. And later, I may go back to school and get a Doctorine in Business Administration. But that's because I have a desire to learn and better myself, not because I want to put silly initials after my name to make me look more important than others...

YMMV,
-Z-man.