Stupiid computer issue, Electronic Medical Records freezes at home

[KFC911]

Yep, what Scott said...be ready to "stop" the continuous ping by issuing a "ctrl C" command as soon as your med records hang (or it will soon fill up the buffer and disappear). Odds are the pings will continue to be responded to, but what you're going to focus on is the "Time" column...you may see the typical response times spike. There's also a possibility that "pings" and "traceroute" are are blocked from getting through to the med server via a firewall etc. as they are a different protocol ICMP (and pass through the network a bit differently also) than your normal traffic. This may very well take a person "on the inside" the allow for this type of diagnostics to pass through. Let us know...and post the results here or via PM.

[KFC911]

One other thing...if you are accessing the server via a "name", try using the native IP address instead. I've seen some extremely poor designs before where a client/server might do a DNS name lookup up to 50 times (the same name) just to access a single web page. Those type of DNS slowdowns have caused more "network issues" than I care to remember

[Tobra]

I must confess most of this is a bit over my head. I think it is VPN, but will check with the tech support people. They have not made any of the suggestions I have seen in this thread. Thanks for shining the light of your intellects on this for me, seriously.

So my dog is not the only one that can tell time. For some reason that is a bit reassuring, makes my dog a little less of a freak. She is the only dog I ever had a vet try to buy from me, so there is a bit of a baseline freakiness there.

[KFC911]

Hey Toby, a "decent" tech support person (on the inside) would approach this totally different. Get tech support on the line and ask for a "network specialist". A packet trace (on the LAN the server is on) would likely get to the crux of this matter in short order. Packets don't typically get "lost" in normal flow of traffic....somewhere a timeout value is set to low. Could be a configuration of the TCP stack or on the med records server itself. Just my .02 worth....send 'em this post

Good luck, and we're not giving up on ya....this isn't rocket science. You took a car in that was "pulling to the right", and they've rebuilt your engine more than once. If tech support doesn't help you, WE WILL . A "recreatable problem" like you have been experiencing is pretty easy to debug and work around...go "up the ladder" if ya have too!!!

ps: Do other colleagues experience similar "interruptions"?

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by KC911

Hey Toby, a "decent" tech support person (on the inside) would approach this totally different. Get tech support on the line and ask for a "network specialist". A packet trace (on the LAN the server is on) would likely get to the crux of this matter in short order.

Didja see where that other guy recommended using Wireshark?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by widebody911

Didja see where that other guy recommended using Wireshark?

Why yes I did . Problem is, we're on the "outside, looking in", and getting a packet trace from Toby's perspective isn't going to indicate what the application server is actually receiving and where the problem likely is. Gotta be capturing the trace at the right location on the network (and maybe in multiple places) to indicate who's dropping the "connection". Have you ever noticed that when you turn a trace on, the problem won't occur while you're looking for it?

[John Rogers]

The tech support folks should be able to do the following while you are connected.

First, use Wireshark or some visual method to trace the route from the app server to your home. Record all the hops and their times.

Second, check the load on the app server and how the connections are managed with things such as memory allocated, CPU time, etc to see how things are balanced. If you are coming in by a VPN connection then it is possible the VPN server was some "old junk" computer that has been recycled and can not handle the load. If the connection is HTTPS then they need to check how the server is processing the connection and if there are internal delays.

Third, since you do not know what the documents are, have them check to see if they are internal to a database saved as a BLOB or some other data type. If this is the case, then the tables with the docs should be on their own drives. If the docs are external to the database, it is possible that the drive is so slow the docs cannot be retrieved in a timely manner and the server times out.

You can check the documents to see what they are by looking at the address window when you have one open. The last item in the long line of stuff will be something like "......../form101.php" or "......./form101.pdf" or "......./form101.doc" or similar. The stuff before the name will tell you if the documents are external then there will be some directory names with "/" between them.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by john rogers

The tech support folks should be able to do the following while you are connected.

First, use Wireshark or some visual method to trace the route from the app server to your home. Record all the hops and their times.

Second, check the load on the app server and how the connections are managed with things such as memory allocated, CPU time, etc to see how things are balanced. If you are coming in by a VPN connection then it is possible the VPN server was some "old junk" computer that has been recycled and can not handle the load. If the connection is HTTPS then they need to check how the server is processing the connection and if there are internal delays.

Third, since you do not know what the documents are, have them check to see if they are internal to a database saved as a BLOB or some other data type. If this is the case, then the tables with the docs should be on their own drives. If the docs are external to the database, it is possible that the drive is so slow the docs cannot be retrieved in a timely manner and the server times out.

You can check the documents to see what they are by looking at the address window when you have one open. The last item in the long line of stuff will be something like "......../form101.php" or "......./form101.pdf" or "......./form101.doc" or similar. The stuff before the name will tell you if the documents are external then there will be some directory names with "/" between them.

With all due respect John, I'd probably go about it a bit differently. Rather than speculate about what "might" be happening, I'd use a packet capture (on the LAN the server is on), and simply look for who (server or client) is dropping the ball and then follow where the trail leads like a bloodhound . Not having an accurate knowledge of the network infrastructure is causing all of us to resort to WAGs (and SWAGs based upon our experiences). Imo, that is the place to start...the fact that the problem is prevalent from home and not from the office would not initially lead me to looking at server performance until I had a reason to do so. Might just be a wacky esoteric network routing issue instead. That's part of the reason Toby is one year into this with no results...no one appears to have done the most basic of diagnostics before going "off in the weeds". I do miss brainstorming with guys like you (Scott, Thom, et al)...I just didn't want to continue my corporate career working for HP . Been out of the game five years now...I am a bit rusty but this thread has been fun.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by KC911

...ps: Do other colleagues experience similar "interruptions"?

Hey Toby, haven't forgot about ya! I also have another question...I've been "ASSuming" that the med records server was at your home office and it occurred to me that everyone on this thread (particularly me) doesn't really have a clue and is just grasping at straws. But...I'm gonna grasp at one more. An issue with your home router. If I could ask 20 questions (albeit some very technical), and get accurate feedback, I could probably get a bit further along...but in "you world", all I have is a patient who's "foot hurts" (and I don't even know which foot) . If this happens "chronically" at home, then I think the approach of working from home while the tech support "A team" is helping you out might just be the best approach....good luck!

ps: To any one who cares, the concept of losing a "connection" is just a bit generic. IP just doesn't work the way many might think...it's just not like a phone call (connection). If you want to get a glimpse "behind the scenes", open a CMD window as discussed earlier with absolutely nothing else running, and then do a "netstat -a" command. Then open a single browser window and connect to Pelican. Now do another "netstat -a" and you'll see dozens of "established connections" (one for every "object" on a web page) that will only "live" for a minute or so. I wish I had access to what you are doing and could really see what's going on...I like helping people too

[Tobra]

Just got off the phone with the tech support people, again. He advised me to contact my internet provider and request a static IP address. I guess the idea is it rolls over to a new address automatically, and when it does, I get kicked to the curb. This actually makes sense, even to me. The office connection was set up specifically to work with this software, hence would be set up like that.

I put in a request for this, but don't think anyone will be looking at it until Tuesday. I have been getting an estimated wait time of one minute, which is to be updated every three minutes. I am #1 in the queue, for about 15 minutes.

Maybe I will go into PARFylvania and hassle George or Dipso.

[Brando]

Sounds like they are filtering by IP. That is why I suggested VPN into your office network.

Originally Posted by Tobra

Just got off the phone with the tech support people, again. He advised me to contact my internet provider and request a static IP address. I guess the idea is it rolls over to a new address automatically, and when it does, I get kicked to the curb. This actually makes sense, even to me. The office connection was set up specifically to work with this software, hence would be set up like that.

I put in a request for this, but don't think anyone will be looking at it until Tuesday. I have been getting an estimated wait time of one minute, which is to be updated every three minutes. I am #1 in the queue, for about 15 minutes.

Maybe I will go into PARFylvania and hassle George or Dipso.

[slodave]

While you are waiting, you can test the theory. Note the IP, use the program and when it craps out, loot at the IP again and see if it has changed.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Just got off the phone with the tech support people, again. He advised me to contact my internet provider and request a static IP address. I guess the idea is it rolls over to a new address automatically, and when it does, I get kicked to the curb. This actually makes sense, even to me. The office connection was set up specifically to work with this software, hence would be set up like that.

I put in a request for this, but don't think anyone will be looking at it until Tuesday. I have been getting an estimated wait time of one minute, which is to be updated every three minutes. I am #1 in the queue, for about 15 minutes.

Maybe I will go into PARFylvania and hassle George or Dipso.

Sounds to me as if the tech support folks are "just fishing" and don't really understand how dynamic IP addressing works (DHCP). I've truly seen some weird stuff over the years, but that's not likely going to be it. Once you've established a connection to the app server (using a dynamically allocated address), it's simply not going to change "mid connection" and cause it to drop. If either a firewall (possible) or the app server (HIGHLY unlikely) are restricting addresses, you'd NEVER connect from home in the first place. Dave, there are (almost certainly) address translations occurring between what Toby sees and what the "destination" firewall/VPN/app servers see. Dave's suggestion is a valid one for "them" to check on the server side but if that's occurring your ISP has a problem with their DHCP setup. I was used to several thousand users entering my Intranet via VPN so I'm pretty adept at all of this stuff...VPN is "goodness" for various reasons, but not likely an issue here. I'd probably wait until after the holiday weekend and contact tech support again instead of pursing the static address with the ISP. Remember....Amber's works...right ?

ps: Oh yeah...one more suggestion....stay out of PARF

[Tobra]

Okay, guess I will go look at some of Enzo's pics of hot chicks

[Tobra]

You were right, switching to a static IP address did nothing at all

[Groesbeck Hurricane]

Do not know if this will help or not, it is more of a shot in the dark:

Wife's old medical programmes will not run correctly on AMD chipsets. Had some tech support and the salesstaff suggest the same thing when we bought the software. The programmes run very well on an Intel chipset with a math dual processor.

Just as a disclaimer, these are much older generation programmes now, they were originally written using computers with Intel chipsets.

[Tobra]

I use the same laptop at home and at the office. Same ISP at home and the office, just a faster hookup at the house. Intel chip, Core i5CPU, 2.7GHz, whatever that means.

VPN, like you guys were thinking, GD POS makes me want to pull my hair out.

[KFC911]

OK, VPN using the same ISP...that eliminates some variables between your office and home. Back to my earlier SWAG, do you use the same type of router/WAP at home as you do at the office? If so, would it be possible to bring your office router home and give that a try (eliminating a potential issue with your home router)? Another WAG would be the speed of your connection from home. How fast is it compared to your office? Basic networking/queuing theory 101....flow control of data as it passes from device to device between the two endpoints while traversing the network path(s). Can you contact your ISP and have them reduce your speed to match the office connection? I know that may sound "crazy", but something is fundamentally screwed up for this to be occurring so chronically from your house while others (Amber) work just fine. This is just another "guess" but would eliminate another variable between your two locations. Hang in there...you're not Kojak (yet)

[Tobra]

Who loves ya baby!

The connection at the house is significantly faster than the one at the office. Not the same sort of router though. Dell wireless router at the office, linksys at the house. I do have the Cisco router that I was using at the office before I got the Dell one. I could try out either one at the house and it would be fairly convenient, particularly over the weekend.

Never had any trouble with the Cisco one, but that was with my old electronic medical records system, and the new people had to sell me something to go with the new printer I guess.

On Monday, I am going into the office late, so I can have them remote in and see the thing die in real time, rather than just hearing about it.

Amber? Man I must have completely missed something.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Tobra

...The connection at the house is significantly faster than the one at the office. ....

Amber? Man I must have completely missed something.

Now "my spidey senses are really starting to tingle"...Hmm . My suggestion about swapping routers is legit, but imo, the probability of something amiss there causing the symptom you see as being VERY low. My "instincts" would cause me to focus upon this connection to your house. I would suggest contacting your ISP and reducing the speed to match your office connection. If I'm correct, this isn't going to "fix" whatever is fundamentally screwed up, but will likely just avoid the problem. "Gut feel"....your laptop is being overrun by the higher speed due to a configuration issue, lack of resources, etc. and is the one "dropping the ball".

Amber? Now I'm stumped....I ASSumed that was your sister....go back and look at posts 15 and 17.