While we are visiting my bench...

[Seahawk]

Whatever it is, beautiful.

Thanks for sharing. These are my favorite threads.

[targa911S]

Ok here is what I get from all the markings on the barrel flats.

Crown/W- choked barrel
Crown/U- final proof approved
Crown/S- Smooth bored
Suhl- proof house location
16 circled- general bore size
16/1- bore diameter range
435 - date of proof code- 4/35 or April 1935

So Suhl is just where the barrels were proofed, not an indicator of where the gun was made. Keep in mind these are Krupp steel barrels, the highest possible quality steel in it's day. Not for "Po Folks".

[targa911S]

are we having fun here?

[oldE]

David,

Glad to see you're keeping amused.

Thanks again for a great glimpse into the craftsmanship which went into some of these devices.
I love it!

Best
Les

[mossguy]

Pre-1917 imperial proof marks. Suhl: Merkel?

[targa911S]

Originally Posted by mossguy

Pre-1917 imperial proof marks. Suhl: Merkel?

Nope. It has nitro barrels. That puts it after 1890 or so. The proof code says 1935 on the barrels. Unless they have been re-proofed on that date I'm going with 1935. Suhl proof house. I don't think they made the gun, but I'm looking into it.

[targa911S]

The mystery has been solved. It's a Collath Nouvelle page 0
It originally was a cape gun with a twist shotgun tube and a cast rifle barrel. It was re barreled in 1935 by LK(Louis Kelber) of Suhl, a famous barrel maker, in 16 ga. nitro proofed as a SXS. Seems Collath had their own calibers as well.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by targa911S

The mystery has been solved. It's a Collath Nouvelle page 0
It originally was a cape gun with a twist shotgun tube and a cast rifle barrel. It was re barreled in 1935 by LK(Louis Kelber) of Suhl, a famous barrel maker, in 16 ga. nitro proofed as a SXS. Seems Collath had their own calibers as well.

How did you find out?

What is the plan?

[targa911S]

The brain trust on the double gun journal board identified it. There is no plan. I removed the dent in the barrel and gave it back to it's owner last week, I sent him the facts on it after the fact. It was nice to have for a while. I'm on to other projects now. I have a Lefever nitro 16, a Parker, and a 1850's W. Richards in for restorations, along with finishing up an insurance deal from a house fire.

[herr_oberst]

Okay once again, not a gun guy speaking here; I hope you can bear with me if I'm being ignorant beyond words -

So originally this was a side by side with a rifle barrel and a shotgun barrel (edit, tube)? Is/was that common? Would it be difficult to site the rifle in this configuration?

[targa911S]

There are no stupid questions, and I am a very patient man. It was originally a cape gun. SXS configuration, but one barrel was a shotgun (smooth bore) and one barrel was a rifle barrel. Very common in Germany as there are no "seasons" all game is open at one time. So you were prepared for the bird as well as the buck. One gun, two different purposes. They also had guns called "drillings" that were a SXS shotgun with a single rifle barrel under but between the two barrels. Both guns are still made, but very pricey as you can imagine. This gun was re-barreled in 1935 as as a SXS shotgun only. The new barrels could use the new nitro powder which made the old cape barrels obsolete.

Combination gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[herr_oberst]

When I learn about things like this, I realize that Ecclesiastes had it right when he wrote of nothing new under the sun.

These combinations are wild!


Thanks, David!

[targa911S]

as far as sighting, the barrels are made to converge at a set distance and had open sights. You tried to be at that distance to make your shot. Cape guns, drillings and double rifles ( SXS both barrles being rifled) are usually made for short distances and were BIG calibers.500 nitro special and the likes. The African safari hunters that use double rifles with open sights are REAL men/hunters. Nerves of steel and huge balls.

[herr_oberst]

Originally Posted by targa911S

Nerves of steel and huge balls.

Plus, plenty of time spent learning their equipment, I would hazard?

[targa911S]

no doubt.

[aigel]

IMHO the Drilling is foremost used for driven hunts when it isn't clear what's going to run out of the brush and where running shots are taken. (The Drilling is not a very precise rifle, considering that its barrel is soldered with the other barrels that stay cold.) In the US many small and large game species are open to hunt at the same time as well, but a rifle/shotgun combo gun has never been very popular, because we do not have these type of driven hunts.

G

[targa911S]

point well made..

[Taz's Master]

The Savage 24 is a good turkey gun with a center fire .22 over a 12 gauge. A model 24 in .22 rimfire over a 20 or .410 makes an excellent 1st gun, and a handy small game weapon.

[targa911S]

Those are getting pricey these days.

[Taz's Master]

Yep, everything that shoots is getting pricey. Very cool to see what you're working on, couldn't be in better hands, and crazy to compare it to a Savage M-24.