Good point.

Would a car like this with a sequential box not have a third pedal?

What would you prefer, the observers falling to their knee's and crying? This is a sanctioned race with ambulances, safety workers, and the rest, No? It would be analogous to jumping out of the stands and the INDY 500 for a crash. Your putting yourself in danger with more vehicles on the track. Hard to pass judgment on anyone unless you are there yourself and even then, what are you going to do?

Well, they might have tried to look a little concerned. Maybe put their damn phones in their pockets...

This wasn't a big race. There may not have been any untrained volunteers anywhere near this spot. I would have jumped right in and tried to help.

JR

So this race is depending on the observers for rescue and recovery? I hope the drivers knew of this before entering.

This is rally. usually, when crashes happen there is no one near by, and you rely on the next two cars for assistance. So yes , you get in there and pull the pricks out.

Just think about taking a hit like that, being stunned or maybe even unconconcious, in a caged car, in a hooped race seat, intercom cables, HANS device, in a harness- submerged and inverted. That crash could have been easily time critical.

Who said 'insurance'? lol.

So you could sleep at night knowing a guy drowned a few feet away while you stood there twiddling your thumbs? I sure as hell couldn't. I understand the concern of someone following the first car in, but I'd rather take that risk than live my life knowing I could have saved a man and didn't.

I would sleep better at night knowing that someone better trained and suited to handle a situation would be taking care of it and not some superhero character from a comic book ripping off his shirt and diving in. If they didn't have this available at this venue or forsee the possible danger on this part of the circuit, shame on them. If your in a hospital and you see someone coding, are you going to try to resuscitate them yourself or summon the code team? Isn't this pointless anyway and they simply got out and walked away?

At a hospital with doctors and nurses around, and out beside a rally course with a car on its side in the water are two different things, and you know it. And while I may not be an EMT I do have a considerable amount of first aid training, both above and below water. And again, getting the guy out of the water is key to his survival, it doesn't take an expert to see that...

Then Rally is not for you.

Ive been in a crash like that, sans the water, but in the middle of fkn nowhere and was knocked out cold. Both crew got out of that car unharmed. But, the difference there may simply have been someone assisting, getting the belts undone and holding a head above water until help arrived.

Im amazed youd say other, for fear of getting wet.

I see your point to an extent. I think in everyday life people need to do the "right thing". I can't see possible risking yourself on something others are doing as "fun" or "sport". I checked the follow up video and it wasn't as bad as I first thought.

It is not by any means. Thousands of people standing yards away from cars on dirt with triple digit speed. Seems crazy just like this race does. Might explain why you don't see this in the US.

There is a 3rd pedal in Cup cars w/sequential box.
I would think the RSR would have similar set-up.

Then by your logic I shouldn't try to rescue a fellow diver who is in danger, a fellow backpacker who is in trouble, etc...

I'm sorry, but just because someone is doing something of their own volition, I don't feel like that relieves me of a moral duty to try to save them if it is reasonable for me to do so, and I would hope most of society agrees with me on this. I know I sure as hell don't want to be out in the wild with anyone who doesn't...

Rally is not for you.

Doubt it. It would be required to run in original spec, in most events. Was the 964 ever homologated with a sequential box?

I don't know if the 964 was ever homologated w/sequential, kinda doubt it.
My response was if it was updated to sequential, similar to the Cup car, it would have a 3rd petal.
Sorry for the confusion.

Taking it way out of context. Not sure how you went from a race observed by thousands (and hopefully run properly by a large workforce) to two people backpacking.

Anyway, The guy must of had an off day, Some dude has wet pants, and flood damage is low on the list of what this Porsche's carfax will reveal.:)

Its rally street stage through a town. Its not a race track. Assistance is minutes away. Car in the water after a big hit. If both crew didn't emerge after a few seconds, help was needed- immediately. Wet clothes would seem a small inconvenience.

Absolutely. And Mr. 89 911, if you ever go into the water under anything but fun circumstances near me, I'm going in after you. Doesn't matter if it's through a hole in the ice. My mom was a swimming instructor and lifeguard, (with several saves under her belt), and we all learned water rescue at an early age. Maybe you don't feel confident in the water, and that is coloring your response?

At any rate, drowning is no joke. One bong hit of water and you're done as far as fending for yourself. You are going down. It's an awful way to die and I would risk nearly all to save anyone from it. :(

I was merely trying to make a point that when you are somewhere that immediate medical assistance isn't possible, that you should render some sort of aid if at all possible. And when I was talking about backpacking, I was including coming across someone that I don't know.


Clearly you shouldn't get anywhere that there isn't professional help nearby, and you should probably carry one of those help I've fallen beepers... Because you don't seem to think anyone would come to your aide out of the goodness of their own heart...

You are probably the type of guy that would refuse care because I'm not a doc, so we'd have to wait till your dumbass passes out to administer care....

Precisely Dennis. I try to get as much training as I can in anything I'm doing. I never want to be in a situation where I have to watch a fellow man die because I wasn't able to at least attempt to help. As soon as I learned to dive I went on for my rescue cert, so I would know how to get someone out of danger and administer oxygen etc.

I have a friend that was a marshal at an F1 race a few years ago. His prior experience? Absolutely zero. Never even been to an F1 race. Never had any sort of experience or training at any level of motorsports, including amatuer club racing. You think he received any significant training or instruction that weekend? Nahhhhh.....

And that's the big time....

JR

This is one of the things that makes you a fine young man, Sid.

The 89 911 guy is a fine example of what is wrong with this country.

In July, I was on a walk at Amphetrite Point near Ucluelet, BC with my 3 year old boy. On the trail, I came across a hysteric lady lamenting how they were going to get an ambulance down there... I asked her what they needed an ambulance for and she tod me that her husband broke fell off a rock and broke his ankle. I found out where this happened and ran over there.

I have EMR training but not the certification (the training is the same for AFA level2 here in Alberta which is basically a work place medic).

I provided first response care for this guy who had the bottom of his tibia sticking out the side of his ankle and his foot hanging on... I had no jump kit soreally all i could do was keep him warm, gather past history and assess vitals. When the ambulance finally arrived (about 30 minutes), I assisted with the air splints and got him onto the scoop and onto the stretcher and into the bus. I gave him my jacket to keep warm (shock).

Anyway, a mystery package arrived at work last week. It was my jacket and a Thank You card. He is expected to make a full recovery in a few months.

Crappy things can happen in remote places, not every town has a hospital, and you have 4 minutes to get air into the blood stream or you risk permanent brain damage. I couldn't imagine not jumping in to assist in a car accident or other incident involving injuries.

good to see some proactive common-sense in this thread. for work I renew my quals annually for first aid. Its not much but i make it a point to teach my girlfriend and my folks anything new that I pick up.

The thing with that incident is that trained first aiders weren't the first thing required. What was required was muscle to assist/get them out, push the car upright or otherwise stop the driver in the LHD side from potentially drowning.

They show a great 1970s UK video at most most rallys Ive done, and it preaches that people die in these situations from three things.

Cant breathe- clear airway (obvious in this case)
Bleed out- stop bleeding. Shove something, anything, in the wound to stop/slow blood loss.
Breathing/heart stopped. More difficult- CPR required.

Leave the screamers and attend to the quiet ones first.

But there is lots a willing bystander can do to assist before help arrives.

The reason I asked is, I was wondering if pushing in the clutch was even an option. As pointed out earlier in the thread and on the team's website the car has a water cooled 3.4 liter engine and a sequential gear box. I doubt this car left the factory as a real RSR.