Can you remind me why the parents are accountable? Did they know of this bullying and did nothing? And if they did know, what exactly were they supposed to do beyond telling the girls to cut the crap out, reaching out to the bullied kid and her parents, etc.? All of this blaming of the parents nonsense is ridiculous. Plenty of great parents out there that have kids do terrible things - that's just the way it is sometimes. What legal grounds are there in this case to go after the parents? There might be, but I haven't come across any. Are we supposed to arrest all the parents of the 16 and 17 year-olds that shoot people to death in robberies?

I still don't know how you can hold someone accountable for words? How do you 'make' someone commit suicide? I agree these are probably mean girls....when is that crime? A felony charge for saying nasty stuff online?

It was my understanding that until your kids turn 18, you are legally responsible for their actions, and by the same token, being under 18 is a sort of "get out of jail free" in and of itself. From what I've observed kids under 18 aren't legally responsible for their actions, and neither are their parents.

I hear this all the time too. Problem is that it's ridiculous and not legally enforceable unless there was knowledge of an imminent crime about to take place by the kid that the parents were aware of, but did nothing to prevent. Online bullying is out of control and terrible. Problem is most parents probably don't even know it's going on until it's too late. Mom and dad may work, Janey or Billy are on their smartphones on the schoolyards bullying rivals on facebook, twitter, or wherever.

Again, don't know the situation with the parents of these girls, but they're obviously some mean girls. It's a shame.

If they're not getting discipline at home, the school should mete it out. At my prep school any kind of hazing or bullying was grounds for immediate expulsion with no refund of tuition. Kids tended to behave too.

I'm sure your prep school was private. Public (government) schools are a totally different world these days.

Of course. But when I was in public school in TX, there was corporal punishment. They let the inmates run the asylum these days.

There is absolutely no way on earth anyone is responsible for that girl's suicide other than that girl herself. I don't care what they said to her, what they did to her, or how long it went on - she made the decision to take her own life. That's all on her.

Mean people suck. But they should only be held responsible for their own actions, not what they "made" or "drove" someone else to do. Learn to cope - mean people are everywhere. They are not going away. Life is tough - tougher if you're stupid. Or unable to cope. Just don't try to blame that on someone else.

^^^ How is the view from 30,000 feet? The devil is in the details and you don't know any of the details.

You obviously have never dealt with or have any clue about clinical depression. It's very, very real and not just some made-up disorder.

You have absolutely no idea what I may or may not have dealt with.

We could say that about every post on this thread, couldn't we? And I thought it was only 60 feet...

She jumped. Nobody pushed her. We all deal with adversity in our lives, some more than others and some better than others. In this case, unless these other girls drug her up there and threw her off, they have absolutely no responsibility in this. None.

I would hate to see the day come where if we chew someone out, or have a heated argument with them and they go home and off themselves we are somehow held "responsible". No way. Where would we draw the line on this? A threshold that is "obvious" for some is not for others, and once we start down this path, the hand wringing ninnies will almost certainly step on the gas and propel us headlong down it, at breakneck speed. It's happened all to often in my lifetime.

No one is responsible for a suicide other than the one who commits it. I don't care what kind of abuse they are suffering.

Mr Higgins, what about the girl up in Montana who killed herself after sexual abuse by a teacher? Does the rapist bear even a little responsibility?

I do suppose their answer now will be "personality screening machines" rather then fix the problem ?

No.

There is always another answer. No matter how poorly someone has treated you, they bear no responsibility for your decision to end your life. Suicide is the ultimate in selfish, cowardly ways out. There is no excuse for it.

Surviving families and friends are wracked with guilt - was there something I could have said? Done differently? The answer is uniformly "no". The decision lay with the deceased. Even worse are the friends and family seeking to blame someone else - they are only seeking to lessen their own guilt, to pawn it off one someone else, to transfer it into anger and vengeance. This is wrong - the only way to "get over it", to find their peace, is to understand that the deceased made the decision, and no one else is to blame.

I've had experience in this I would not wish on any of you. Until you understand it was entirely the deceased's decision, and a selfish and cowardly one at that, it will consume you.

Yes, I'm certain a 12 year old went through all those items when she considered her decision.

You might not be able to prosecute the kids that did the bullying but they played a role in her decision.

It's a sad story all the way around. I feel for the family and friends.

Apples and trees......



Accused teen bully's mother arrested over fight video | Local News - Home


LAKELAND, Fla. -

Advertisement

LocalNews

Accused teen bully's mother arrested over fight video By Kevin Clay | WESH.com, Kevin Clay | WESH.com, kclay@hearst.com Published On: Oct 18 2013 05:53:39 PM EDT Updated On: Oct 18 2013 07:13:00 PM EDT

The mother of a 14-year-old who was recently arrested in a bullying case has been charged with child abuse and child neglect, according to the Polk County Sheriff's Office.

Vivian Vosburg, 30, of Lakeland, took part in a video posted on social media that showed two juveniles fighting and also showed Vosburg punching the juveniles and screaming profanities, Sheriff Grady Judd said.

Vosburg is the mother of a 14-year-old who was charged with aggravated stalking in a bullying case that led to the suicide of 12-year-old Rebecca Sedwick.

Six juveniles were seen in the fight video that was was posted on Facebook early in July 2013, Judd said.

Vosburg is being booked into the Polk County Jail and will be held on no bond until her first appearance.

30 y/o has a 14 y/o (=16). You can tell that wasn't going to turn out well. :rolleyes:

I noted that as well but I thought I read that she is actually the stepmother. I'll see if I can confirm that.

I saw a brief interview (of both parents) the other day. You can't fix stupid.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/18/mother-fla-teen-accused-in-girl-bullying-is-charged-with-abuse/

Higgy there certainly is always another answer. I do agree as anyone would.

But you are giving a 12 year old credit for a perspective that isn't typically gained until much later in life.

Also please consider that social media makes bullying 100 times worse than anything you or I ever dealt with in school. Consider the behavior of adults in PARF when they have a screen to hide behind. Imagine how kids behave with the same screen between them and reality.


Regarding the parents I would have to say we monitor our kids behavior closely and any hint of nastiness towards others gets dealt with swiftly. I do not believe it is possible for a parent to miss the kind of awful attitude these girls displayed if they were doing even a half assed job of parenting.

Agreed - that is far too "mature" of a decision for any 12 year old to make. By the same token, however, those tormenting her certainly cannot be expected to have any more of a "mature" perspective on their actions than she had, can they? If she is not being held responsible for her (extremely weighty) decision, how can they be held responsible for their juvinile bullying? If we are assigning the same level of "maturity" to all parties involved, how can that absolve the one who chose to take her own life, yet convict those who were bullying her? It just can't work that way.

Good point - I can certainly see where today's kids (or at least the ones married to social media) are far more easily taunted than we were. In our day, it was face to face. That, and with boys, a well placed fist in that other face often ended it. Girls are different - always have been, always will be.

Interestingly enough (and timely re: this discussion) I just got invited to a seminar hosted by two of my female colleagues. The topic is what they call the "Queen Bee Syndrome" (google that for some interesting reading), otherwise known as "mean girl" syndrome in the professional workplace. Apparently, this taunting does not end when they grow up. I never realized it, but professional women can be incredibly nasty to one another in the workplace. They don't treat their male colleagues this way, so we never experience it, but they can be incredibly hostile and competitive with one another.

Having read the synopsis for this seminar, I decided to share it with my wife, who is a nurse by training but now manages nursing staff over half a dozen clinics in an asthma/allergy practice. Her response? "Oh yeah, you have no idea how bad it can get...". She agreed with all of it, having experienced it throughout her career. I honestly had no idea. Anyway, I digress - but it is apparent that many never grow out of this.

Agreed. It is, however, just too great of a leap from bad parent to another kid's suicide. They simply cannot be held responsible for that, no matter how poorly they are raising their kids. They can and should be held responsible for the actions of their own kids - the bullying needs to be addressed - but not at the level that it "made" another kid, whom they have no control over, take her own life. That was entirely that kid's decision.