Rotorway, anyone else?

[afterburn 549]

Its EZ pick on Rotorway, and they do have their fair share of problems......
But most now are known about.
They are assembled by people that for the most part by 1st timers. Not a assembly line.
Different skill levels.
Some builders "overlook" items....just a caveat that comes with the deal
The video above is a sure sign of engine failure with pilot malfunction or just pilot malfunction.
He should have went for bent skids !
not SUDDEN stoppage

[cashflyer]

Here is a thread full of comments about the Rotorway.
helicopter or helicycle, why? - General Helicopter Forum - Vertical Reference Helicopter Forums

Also, check out these two previous Pelican threads, from 2007 and 2011:
"Real" Helicopter Kits and such
scorpion helicopter

[afterburn 549]

He has some good advise and some "old" advise as in news.
Yes there are a lot of problems with the "Rotorway'
However - they are not surprises anymore.
Secondary shaft replace B4 200 hour mark
Thats the biggy
Main rotor shaft has to be replaced with 1.75 as there are no parts for the 1.5 inch..
Engines.....lots of problems, lots of evolution here,
...Mostly valve wear as in valve keepers jumping out.!
YIPES !

Hope you payed atn. in auto rotation school !!!LOL
The 162f has a an other crop along with the these..
Wiring sucks
NOW
Do want a so called REAL helicopter>??
Good.
R22? Schweitzer, or Hiller ?? Or?
OK fine, but, we all can not afford the required maintenance for these.
$20,000 to $50,000 for a set of blades instead of $6,000 (is enough to stop most of us and consider all the ADs on factory expensive stuff)
3000 to infinity for a new engine of your choice in Rotorway
In a real helicopter you will install the required power plant.
Say expensive !
If you want "real" convert a rotorway to a Kiss turbine.
Set you back I think 40,000.about as real as one can get!
I neither want or desire to convert someones thinking as to what to get into.....we all have our limitations.
Rotorway has a bunch of "known" problems and MORE built in problems from less then experienced builders.
But with a little study the caveats can be worked out.

[VINMAN]

Originally Posted by romad

23 hrs? seem to me it would have been to expensive to stop

Yeah I know, it was tough to quit but had just bought my house and couldn't swing it anymore. At the time it was $225 an hour. I even had a short tease in a Jet Ranger. Was tough sitting back in the R-22 after that!

[KNS]

The problem with flying helicopters on a Private Pilot's License is the cost (duh). A Cessna 152 or 172, for example, is relatively affordable to rent or even own. The operating expenses for helicopters, even R22s are twice (or more) than a fixed wing single. You can do your whole fixed wing PPL in a light twin for the same cost as an R22.

If you want to fly helicopters on a regular basis you either need to do it commercially or join the military. Or, build one.

I have a friend with an R44, he flies a couple hundred hours a year in that thing! His mechanic says it is one of the most frequently flown, private R44s he knows of. Needles to say he's quite well-off (retired).

[afterburn 549]

KNS you said it !
Most of us have to be in charge in all ways to afford the mess of parts and maintenance .
last i knew a chopper work on to fly it ratio was about 4 to one, ( 4 hours maint. One hour in the air).
You add a "real" helicopter to the mix.......yea its now very expensive.
A experimental....well at least the labor is sort of free.....and the parts a LOT cheaper.....

[cashflyer]

As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am somewhat on the fence about the product. They have known issues. Secondary shaft failures, cam problems, a belt driven tail rotor system, etc.



Posts on Rotorway Owners Group indicate that the ships have a 3:1 maintenance to flying ratio, that they don't hold value well, and that you'll be hard pressed to find one that makes it to 500 hours.

It is experimental, so they are probably ok as long as you know what to expect, and are proficient on your emergency procedures.

You are correct that they are cheaper to buy and somewhat cheaper to own. Since this is the third thread you have started about Rotorways in the last 5 years, why haven't you bought one yet?

One final question for the night... you mentioned that the labor would be "sort of free". Are you an A&P?

[afterburn 549]

To clear things up -
I have a waiver for A&P if i ever want one one...
Plus, none is needed for your own "experimental".
(I am sure you know that )
My labor is sort of free, (my hobby)
I have owned one other Rotorway. (sold)
Your memory of my previous threads is better then mine! LOL
(But i have all most no short term at all )..LOL
I could NEVER afford a store bought helicopter , their ADs, their parts, would break me in one hour !
Like said "Military and big big Corporate only" can afford the real deal...
Experimental - One has the latitude to change anything you dont like.....not confined to any particular format.
I am not too keen on a belt tail rotor drive....A drive shaft seems a lot more simpler.
The R.W engine is crap.....all have problems.
They should have used a out side Vendors and spent the cash on a real transmission. !
How ever...its a decent air frame with flyable characteristics.....

PS secondary seems to last till about the 200 hour mark according to those that know . (Homer bell)

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by crustychief

I build FAA approved flight simulators, I have a lot of hours in our simulators but have never flown a real helicopter.

If you can do it in a simulator, you can do it in the real thing...

We type rate pilots in simulators these days. They have in many cases never touched the real thing. They are very realistic...

Joe A

(who has about 30 hours in a Enstrom, 20 hours in a TH-55 and 5-6 in a Jet Ranger)

EDIT, if you ever make it back to the factory, let us know. Its only a bit South of us here in Phoenix.

[cashflyer]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

To clear things up -
I have a waiver for A&P if i ever want one one...
Plus, none is needed for your own "experimental".
(I am sure you know that )

If you build it yourself, you can receive the repairman certificate for that aircraft and perform your own annual Condition Inspection. Without the repairman certificate, you will need an A&P.

As for maintenance, there have been conflicting opinions on whether the non-builder can do the maintenance. Here is an article that says no:
http://www.121five.com/admin/FeatureArticles/Owner%20Performed%20Aircraft%20Maintenance.pdf
And here is an article that says yes:
Homebuilt Matintenance

I would tend to agree with the EAA guy, that you can do your own maintenance, however you may have to defend this to some FSDO guy one day.

[rsrguy]

AB, did you ever pick up a 162f?

[rsrguy]

We'd been looking at one with 120 hrs, but knowing the factory is about to go under again... Well the 45k price seems like it's 10k too high.
How to the other components hold up?

[rsrguy]

WOW... just wow. I guess that's to be expected from a vw based case that is over stressed.

[jbryan]

I've got a few thousand hours in a Cobra both in Viet Nam and as an IP. Does that count?

[afterburn 549]

Long story nope-
Going back to a Th or 269/300 is like stepping on to a bicycle after being on a sportbike!
A RW is even worse~!
You will kill yourself being used to so much power!
It would take some getting used to, as I have quite a few hours in the "H" model Huey too.
Going backward into a recip, one has to be WAY ahead of the curve.
Just pulling on the stick is EZ in a T53L13.
In a little RW is all has to be planned ...Not that you cant do it, it just takes getting used to.

[Fast Freddy 944]

Cool bird, but unsafe like a gyro plane...

[bodmin]

Rotary wing for me. Cavalon AutoGyro. Rotors in permanent autorotation, don’t need 1.4 seconds to dump the collective as per R22.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by afterburn 549

Hope you payed atn. in auto rotation school !!!LOL

IFR = I Fly Roads?

[edgemar]

how about these

[Nostril Cheese]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

Many thousand of hours in all types of fixed wing and helicopters.

Most of my flight time in in all variants of the H-60, including Blackhawks and Jayhawks.

I have hours in the CH-46, Jet Ranger, CH-53E, AH-1 Cobra, Apache, Hughes 500, H-2 Sea Sprite, H-3, Gazelle and Lynx.

I wouldn't trade a second of my time in helos for anything else.

What is your favorite? Built models of the Cobra and Apache as a kid. Airwolf too.