The Sig SG 551 would be my inside / out home choice.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386036841.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386036878.jpg

Ooops...

There you go.

These things are far more capable "assault" weapons than many of the black plastic rifles.

Wow, has it been that long? I mean you're right and everything, but it seems like yesterday that was big news.

I understand the "good" ones today are still two minute rifles at best. The "bad" ones of yesterday were all of four to five minute rifles.

Really??? So a 1976 bicenntenial is better than a new one?

Not sure what you are saying flat. If the new rifles are 2 MOA and the old 4 MOA that means the new ones are twice as accurate, (still not real good). At say 100 yards the new rifle can group 2" were as the old could have groups of say 4". And of course the further out you go the less accurate they'd be.

Every time I take it to the range, the looks I get are epic....I put rounds down range nearly as fast as the mall ninjas and have much better groupings

I mis-understood.

Yeah I figured that was it.

A good, reliable alternative to the Mini-14 would be a Saiga AK variant in 7.62x39 with a sporting stock on it. Last time I checked they were fairly reasonable. Look similar to the Mini-14 but with the AK mechanics. Large cap mags no problem...

I bought my first AR many years ago then built several. They tickled my engineering fancy, but I'm over them...especially after some recent range time shooting at something other than paper that left me wanting something with more punch.

If you're looking for a complete AR, AR15.com just sent out an email yesterday for one of the site's commissioned AR15 rifles with your choice one of 4 rails for $650! Good deal if you are looking for one.

Anyhow, I always wanted an AK underfolder with a milled receiver. Hard to find one for less than $1300. So instead I picked up a VZ58 from Aim Surplus. $499 for a more simple rifle than an AK, short stroke piston (not attached to the bolt), milled receiver and lighter than an AK! For $499 you get 5 30-rd aluminum magazines, a 4-mag carry pouch, bayonet and cleaning kit. Damn good deal and I'd rather have the VZ over the AR any day. It also eats cheap Wolf 7.62x39 rounds all day long.

As a mechanical engineer, I prefer the VZ over the AR. We tested fired two of them last weekend and they were just as accurate as the AR...at over 100 yards...maybe another story but minute of man I'm certain will make the VZ more than acceptable for any use you guys can think of.

If you don't know what the VZ58 is, I suggest you Google it before you buy an AR or AK.

Aim sold out very quickly but they are getting more.

Thanks for helping me spend more money.

You're welcome ;)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t5OTyPNw7nk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dt5O TyPNw7nk

I'm going to sell my P250 Subcompact now that I've purchased a P938 for CCH. That would get me most of the way towards a VZ58........

I've been thinking 7.62 for a while after seeing it available on otherwise empty shelves a few months ago. You're just fanning the flames.:)

Lol. I'm selling an AR or two to buy more 7.62x39 ammo!

Have you shot a VZ58? My old room mate had one, as well as an Ak74 an AK 47, and several ARs.. The ARs were way more enjoyable to shoot. They also seemed to have a lot fewer problems. If I was buying a long spoon, it would be an AR...

We put 100 rds each through two of the vz's last weekend. No problems at all. Much more enjoyable than I expected. I had no desire to go handle my ARs after shooting the VZs.... It made me want to sell some ARs and buy more VZs!

Cosmoline on the pin will do that. Shake and rattle? All good.

SKS has forged receiver, rather than the stamped steel of the AK, and uses the same round. Plus, they has pretty wood stocks and pokey bay-o-nets. Chicom ones have chrome lined barrels too. Shoot nicely when you get a good one.

Hey Masraum. 2 questions:

1) how old are you?
B) have you ever used a red dot sight?

Lots of stuff to think about here guys. Thanks for all of the responses.

43 and nope.

My long spoon experience is limited to a single shot bolt action 22 and bb and pellet guns.