Autocross, how to?
 

The recent celebrity accident got me thinking.

I am few months into Miata ownership.

About a week ago we had a rare light rain... on my way to work I got a little too hot on the freeway on-ramp and waged the tail of the Miata (yes, very stupid for 56 year old)

So again thinking... maybe I could find a safe way/time/place to explore the limits of my new tiny sports car... such as autocross.

What sort of equipment do I need to get into autocross? Cheaply seeing as I doubt it will be a regular hobby.

Thanks!

A safe car and a helmet... Some autocross events have some loaner helmets.

Otherwise, go have fun!

If you like to read, see if you can find a copy of The Autocross Performance Handbook.

As I remember, the SCCA only requires a safe car and I think they do a short inspection. When we started many, many years ago they did supply loaner helmets AND an instructor who is generally familiar with your car make and model. In southern CA there used to be a couple a month at minimum.

look for a local motorsports club. SCCA is a good place to start, but BMW, porsche, corvette clubs etc also have autocrosses.

if they have a beginners school, go to it.

when you go, sign up for novice or beginner or a class like that. when you go, check in at the front desk, and tell them it is your first time. they will probably help you through signing up for work, how to work your work station, and they probably also have instructors to ride along with you on your first few runs to teach you how to drive.

no matter how good a driver you are the street or track or go kart, you will be slow. you will be painfully slow. you will look at the cars and drivers killing you by multiple seconds, and go, wow, how the hell can they do that?

do not take this as discouragement, take it as encouragement. ask these drivers for advice, have them watch your runs, ride along with them, have them ride with you. that is how you learn.

i went to my first event 3 years ago in the 951, and this year won the local series in the STR class in my MR2:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...f/cars/128.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y16...psc1a0a0dd.jpg

My son and I ran in SCCA Autocross. A great way to learn valuable car control technique. The weekend after my daughter got her drivers license I had her at the next autocross event. She learned a lot and is actually a fantastic driver....racing or otherwise.

Scott,

That Miata of your is easy to drive with the right pedal and getting it back on track requires lifting of the said pedal vary slightly or counter steer. I did lot of it on this turn on the way to my home, usually late at night without any cars around (2nd gear turn). A tight turn that's wide open with nothing to hit if I lost control. Years ago, I would find a large parking lot and screw around in it to see what it can do in the turns (rain is better). I am not sure if that will fly today. How about driving school at Willow or something?

here's your chance Scott. go and check it out

Speed Ventures - Track Event Detailed Information

I never did autox in my 99 Miata but one of the first things I did was to have a rollbar installed= Harddog rollbar. Call me a chickensh_t if you want but it made me feel safer driving a small car. Just trying to think of your head among other things....

Scott, if you are in SoCal this weekend, stop by El Toro on Sunday. The OCPCA is having the last AX of the season. We have an X class, where any car can run, not just Porches.

How to AX? Aim for the cones and at last minute, avoid them! :D

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The most important thing is to make sure you have plenty of anti-freeze.

Serial, I have a book on my shelf called "secrets to solo racing" by Henry Watts.
It won't teach you everything, only experience will do that. But it'll help you get started in the right direction.

I have another related book but it's a little more advanced:
"speed secrets:
professional race driving techniques" by Ross Bentley


I still can't drive worth a crap, can you imagine how bad I'd be without my books? ;)

^^^^^ slodave above

You don't have to run a Porsche in the PCA Orange County Region's autoXs. You don't even have to be a PCA member. It's about $75. They will provide an instructor and even a helmet, oftentimes even lunch. No special preparation you need to do (just tape over the battery terminals with duct tape and take out everything that isn't bolted down: floormats, stuff in the glovebox, stuff in the trunk, etc).

SCCA here is uber serious, PCA a hoot and a half. PCA lets you run non-Porsches, not a problem, but other regions may differ.

The Watts book is a must read.

Its a slippery slope to a tire trailer, Hoosiers or Falken's or something, and every weekend an event...

Oh one other thing I learned:
the AX starter really gets a kick out of it when you nail the throttle and drop the clutch juuuuuust right in yer 9 eleben and the boost comes on a little early while you accidentally light up both back tires and end up 45 degrees from the normal line within the first 10 feet almost taking out the lights and leaving him in a big cloud of grey smoke.

LOL You'll all get a big chuckle out of it, highly recommended

Yeah, taking out the timing lights is trick! :D Also make sure to walk through them as you walk out to corner work.

I would have liked a stainless double hoop bar in my last miata, but those aren't cheap.

The first thing that I did to my current miata was pull the roll bar out of it. With me sitting in the seat, I could touch the bar with my head by just tilting my head back slightly. The bar was more dangerous to my head than not having one.

Anything that learn how your car reacts with help you, AutoXes & DE fit that bill. Hell, yesterday I was coming from a meeting, 3 lane road that curves at an intersection. A big truck came into my lane, and with no escape route (telephone pole ) and a 50mph road meant split second decision, get hit by the Plumbing truck, hit a telephone pole if I couldn't couldn't get my Trans Am stopped & not get hit by the truck . Course this all went down in a matter of seconds, and while my tires got toasty, no feathers were ruffled on the Thunder Chicken:D
Had it not been for the time I have spent at the track, which started with auto-Xes (and I still run SCCA ones when I can) I would not have been as aware or prepared to properly react today, understanding how my car would react to quick maneuvers & braking.

Around here all you need is a motorcycle helmet and a car with tight lug nuts without a bunch of crap in it. Putting duct tape over the battery terminals is a good idea. Heck, they'll even tighten your lug nuts for you and loan you the duct tape. Drive. Do stupid stuff. Learn. You can't get hurt (not counting your ego, masculinity, and standing in the community). But that's southern Ohio.

Scott... Here's a 944 Autocross video for you. ;)

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I seriously caught the bug a few years back and spent a good sum of money on upgrades and what not. I'm running RA1s now which really raise the limits and make it much more fun. Also much more money.

But take your miata bone stock and you will have a blast! They are fun little cars to drive in anger, and it will surprise you how well a good driver can shuffle one around the track!

^^ Now we just need to get you to an AX that is run on a huge tarmac. :D

getting a lot of push there man, and when you did get the oversteer, it was from the classic understeer in, to snap oversteer, which is ultimately an understeer on corner entrance problem.

go in a bit slower, and get on the power faster, as the back steps out, drive it out with your right foot a bit less steering angle :D:D:D

I don't have a 951! So with limited power and grippy tires, Its rare that I can drive it with my right foot! Trust me, I've tried. ;) I need to tighten up my rear sway bar, but it seems like invariably I do that, and then I've got way too much over steer...

Doesn't help that in that video I had been on a nearly year long autocross hiatus, so most of the problems you see are the loose nut behind the wheel.. ;)

it happens, when i went to the mr2 on hankooks compared to the 951 i was pissed as ****. i thought the car was a understeering pig, no power to push the nose around etc etc. but really i was driving it poorly, too fast on entry, not fast enough back on the power after turn-in.

in the cold, or rain that problem still manifests itself on that car, i need more adjustable suspension to make it easier to deal with. cause those mid engined cars, they will push on you, and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it besides ride it out.

video showing the problem (understeer on entry, oversteer on exit):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tiVDjUJ1GgY

Mid engine push?......sure.

2010-05-16 Wendover NT - Sun Run - 46.015secs - YouTube

have you ever driven a mid engined car? you over cook the corner entry, and she will push on you. its a classic mid-engined driving characteristic ...

Both feet in when it starts to spin! Or something like that.

Last I checked... A 914 is midengined...

that might not be him or his car ... i have no idea.

mid engined cars, or any car really, will push if you over cook corner entry. then, lots of RWD will kick over into oversteer once the front wheels gain grip again, causing snap oversteer. while the oversteer is not good, the actual problem took place a while back, the corner entry understeer. cure the understeer, and you cure the snap oversteer.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't JP win at least one major championship in that 914?

then he should well understand push from over cooking corner entry, esp in mid engined cars.

911 spin by moi.

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Uh huh.......you got the Punk part right.

July 3rd AXoops - YouTube

It's all in the set up, partner. Overcook at about 35 sec.......set up done that way purposely

i have no idea what you are saying or why.

do you deny that if you over cook corner entry, you will push?

if not ... then we have no disagreement. if you are a national champion, or have just about any HPDE at all, you know that im right. its car dynamics 101.

and you pushed, until the snap oversteer came on .... :confused:

thats what i have been saying since literally my first post on the topic.

Come on, guys. Back to your corners! Round is over. :)

SCCA is the same here, the local pca region, well, I don't remember time they did their own AX, but my hair was still dark..:p
LOL, so true... Ignor him, just a clueless kid who thinks he is smarter than those of who who have been playing with these cars since before he was born.
As to 914s, how many times has a 914 based car taken FTD at Parade???http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1386218559.jpg

I don't deny that anyone that doesn't know how to set up a midengine car for AX may well push on an overcooked entry.....but not one I set up. No push at 35 sec, ....straight line brake, off the binders & turn in....we went right to loose.........that was my butt in the chair:rolleyes:.

My MR2 T was set up to do the same.

i cannot fathom for the life of me, anyone who knows how to control a car under performance conditions not knowing that you will push when you over cook a corner. and that when those front wheels re-grip, they will usually rip the back wheels around into snap oversteer.

like this is literally car control 101.

i did have a local national title winning autocross driver tell me that at no point during an autocross run could i estimate the load on each wheel. of course that is freshmen physics, but hey, he has the trophy right? bwahahaha

then you didn't overcook the corner entry, you braked and turned in and under the speed that the front wheels would push .... that means you didn't over cook it. mean you lost the back from it getting so light from trail braking weight transfer.

im not talking about setup, im talking about driver error.

You can safely explore the limits of your car by autocrossing, but I feel that I learned way more about car control by attending schools like Road Atlanta, and Bondurant. The skills learned at the schools can be used on the road or the track. You could autocross on your own for years and have lots of fun, but still could be doing it all wrong. Driving schools put your through drills that force you to get out of your comfort zone and really learn the limits of the car by exceeding them in a controlled environment.

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This is true....to a point. DE guys and a few racers show up & get their doors blown off at AX.......then disparage AX as armature hour and seldom show up again. Every AX pass is a "qualifying lap" (cept maybe the first one). Each course is different and must be learned in a hurry.......SCCA gives you 3 passes that count.

These are done at less that freeway speed for the most part.....no better training for what you face on the street. (unless you have a Carrera GT and abiding faith in your driving prowess)

I was never that good at driving. My young hired gun (co driver) was 2 sec per lap quicker than I.......that 914 made me look good.
Only one fella that drove the car (via careful selection) was slower than I ,head to head,....by a couple tenths.......a regular poster here, BTW. I'll leave Paul's name out of this.SmileWavy

The Miata is a hell of an AX car, have fun,