bidding on gunbroker

[masraum]

Does it work the same as ebay does? Can you snipe the same by putting in your max bid at the last minute and it just raises it to just over whatever the other max bid is?

IE, the current max is $50, you bid $101. Someone else bids $75, so you only end up paying $76?

There's something on that I am interested in. It's got 5 days and the bid is already climbing, so it may go higher than I want to pay, but just in case...

Is there anything to know about buying from gunbroker. I've never bought anywhere but at a retail gun store, so any caveats would be nice to know ahead of time.

thanks

[masraum]

Ah, I see they have a 15 minute rule to stop the sniping.

[masraum]

What would you consider a good price for a S&W Model 27-2 6" nickel that is supposedly NIB? It comes with tools, a wooden box, a another box, and a cardboard box that it all comes in that appears to be factory.

I've seen them going for $800-1000, so I'm thinking this one is $1200-1500, but I'm not really that up on this stuff.

[on2wheels52]

You'll need a friendly(?) FFL holder to receive an do the transfer.
Fees vary (I'd do it free for Pelicans)
Jim

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

You'll need a friendly(?) FFL holder to receive an do the transfer.
Fees vary (I'd do it free for Pelicans)
Jim

Is the FEL thing just for handguns? My neighbor just bought a Black Powder Rifle off GunBroker and it came to my house via UPS for a signature (he was not home)...

[masraum]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

Is the FEL thing just for handguns? My neighbor just bought a Black Powder Rifle off GunBroker and it came to my house via UPS for a signature (he was not home)...

I'm no expert, but I think certain types of firearms are exempt, antiques and display models (I think you can often by black powder as a kit for display, but they do fire). I think handguns and most rifles would require an FFL.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

You'll need a friendly(?) FFL holder to receive an do the transfer.
Fees vary (I'd do it free for Pelicans)
Jim

Thanks, I've go a small local range down the road that does it for $30.

[masraum]

I wish I was looking for a blue example, as there are tons of model 27 and 28 out there in blue at decent prices.

[enzo1]

I call my buddy and he looks it up in the "Blue Book" of Gun Values which will all have estimates for almost any firearm , but are only GUIDES, not price lists.... or you could subscribe here but I've no personal experience with it.... Blue Book Of Gun Values - Online Subscription - Get Started

[on2wheels52]

"Is the FFL thing just for handguns? My neighbor just bought a Black Powder Rifle off GunBroker and it came to my house via UPS for a signature (he was not home)..."

Generally speaking, ATF is concerned with smokeless powder arms, so shotguns and rifles (even
.22's) need to go through a dealer also. Black powder not having to. But I guess there could be some local requirements for them also.
C&R and antique stuff aren't a part of my license class so I haven't made a study of them.

I get a hard copy of the Blue Book every year. As enzo said, it's only a guide. I'd be happy to get closer to BB prices but I'd to have the time (and ambition) to list them on the auction sites. I just get pawn shop prices for mine.
If you're looking for a particular discontinued firearm I'd suggest looking at completed auctions for several of them to get a feel for what they're going for.
But they're auctions, you need to decide how much you're willing to pay to win the thing.
Jim

[enzo1]

Originally Posted by on2wheels52

"

for several of them to get a feel for what they're going for."

Jim

This....

[id10t]

Originally Posted by enzo1

This....

Yes, and to do it you must have a GB account and log in, then speficially search for completed items. Sort by high number of bids first, average the prices with bids

[John Rogers]

Here are the firearm rules as explained to me by my FFL who has been doing this for a very long time and based on my Gun Broker experience.

- Muzzle loading fire arms including modern reproductions do not "generally" require a FFL transfer. There are some places that do he said and he seldom deals with them so he said to have the buyer check local laws. The term muzzle loader means that a "cartridge" can not be used in any way.

- Selling any gun that uses a cartridge, even a relic or antique or buying one from a private seller requires a FFL if it crosses state lines. If you sell one then it is federal law that comes into play he noted and even states with very lax laws require the FFL. If selling, make sure to get a copy of the FFL and if the license holder says no, something is fishy! What happens at the other end is on the FFL
such as wait times, etc.

- If you have a FFL or a curio and relic license then you can receive the gun and if old enough then the C&R can be used.

So far I have sold a dozen guns through Gun Broker and all went to the persons FFL as they used cartridges. I have bought several muzzle loaders through Gun Broker and they all came to my house.

[legion]

I've never bought anything on gunbroker, but I've sold a few things.

As a seller, I love the 15 minuter rule, as it gets me the best price for an item. All of my transactions on gunbroker have gone very smoothly.

I've sold on eBay too, and I find it to mostly be a headache. The fees are high, and many buyers don't read the listings (like when I say I won't ship internationally). I had to ban a guy from Poland from bidding on my auctions because he kept winning and the cost of me shipping him 4 spark plugs was going to put me in the hole $30. I had fixed shipping on all of my auctions, and I had one guy demand a refund of the difference between actual shipping and collected shipping, lest he leave "negative feedback". I didn't think typing me the message was worth the $0.11 difference.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by john rogers

- Selling any gun that uses a cartridge, even a relic or antique or buying one from a private seller requires a FFL if it crosses state lines. If you sell one then it is federal law that comes into play he noted and even states with very lax laws require the FFL. If selling, make sure to get a copy of the FFL and if the license holder says no, something is fishy! What happens at the other end is on the FFL
such as wait times, etc.

- If you have a FFL or a curio and relic license then you can receive the gun and if old enough then the C&R can be used.

Interesting. John, this has not been my experience at all. I think your FFL is just being extra cautious, which is fine - no one gets in trouble that way. When in doubt, just follow the most stringent rules.

With a life-long interest in old single shots, lever guns, and single actions, I have purchased and sold more than a few across state lines over the last 30 years. Many of my buddies and acquaintances with whom I share this interest have as well. If the arm in question is old enough to qualify as a curio or relic, we have never once gone through FFL's. Many of those with whom I regularly deal are FFL holders who also deal in modern arms, and they quite happily send old guns right to my home. Anybody's home. And these guys have a vested interest in keeping that FFL, so they are not going to try anything even remotely questionable.

I have never heard of a "Curio and Relic" license. Not that that means there isn't one - I've just never heard of one. How do these work? Who issues them (BATFE)? I would find it most odd that one would have to be licensed to deal in items that do not require a license to own. Could this be for older machine guns (Gatling or Maxim, etc.), or stuff like that? I've certainly never heard of it in the context of the antique civilian arms in which I'm interested.

Oh, and Bob - any muzzle loader, regardless of vintage, can be shipped by anyone. Even brand new cap'n'ball revolvers. They are not considered "firearms" under the GCA of 1968.

[id10t]

Black powder and obsolete cartridge spoons don't require - 44 pinfire, etc.

If a particular example of a spoon was made before Jan 1 1899, it is considered an antique and not federally regulated - no FFL to ship/receive, etc.

If the spoon is more than 50 years old OR on a specific list
*and*
the spoon is complete and in original configuration

It qualifies to be C&R - Curio and Relic (or crusty & rusty).

There are several types of FFLs - most common is 01 (dealer) and 03 (C&R collector)

A collecter w/ C&R FFL can recieve guns that qualify as C&R directly, no FFL needed on his/her end. But ONLY FOR THE PURPOSE OF ENHANCING HIS/HER COLLECTION. It is not a license to engage in the firearms business (ie, no buying 5 SKSs deciding you don't want them and setting up a table at a show... over and over and over again)

The others are all really SOT (special occupation taxes) that allow for dealing in NFA goodies (aka Class 3 dealer), manufactuing, importing, manufacturing ammo, etc

Originally Posted by john rogers

Here are the firearm rules as explained to me by my FFL who has been doing this for a very long time and based on my Gun Broker experience.

- Muzzle loading fire arms including modern reproductions do not "generally" require a FFL transfer. There are some places that do he said and he seldom deals with them so he said to have the buyer check local laws. The term muzzle loader means that a "cartridge" can not be used in any way.

- Selling any gun that uses a cartridge, even a relic or antique or buying one from a private seller requires a FFL if it crosses state lines. If you sell one then it is federal law that comes into play he noted and even states with very lax laws require the FFL. If selling, make sure to get a copy of the FFL and if the license holder says no, something is fishy! What happens at the other end is on the FFL
such as wait times, etc.

- If you have a FFL or a curio and relic license then you can receive the gun and if old enough then the C&R can be used.

So far I have sold a dozen guns through Gun Broker and all went to the persons FFL as they used cartridges. I have bought several muzzle loaders through Gun Broker and they all came to my house.

[Jeff Higgins]

Thanks for the explanation, id10t. I was not aware of the legal distinction between a "curio and relic" and an "antique". The arms that my buddies and I are interested in are definitely old enough to qualify as "antique".

So, at 50 years old, it can already qualify as a "curio and relic"? Wow - first gen M16's are that old, as are M60's and other such modern, still issued military weapons. Interesting...

[Rick Lee]

Doesn't a gun have to be on the C&R list before it's C&R eligible? I think some guns can be more than 50 yrs. old, but if they're not on the C&R list, then your C&R FFL is not gonna cover it, yes?

[masraum]

ok, back to our regularly scheduled show...

when you bid on gunbroker, do you put in your "max bid" like ebay, or just your next bid?

[id10t]

Remember it isnt the design but when *that* particular one was made.

A Winchester 94 made in 1898 is an antique no FFL or fed paperwork needed

A Winchester 94 made in 1960 - assuming it is in "original configuration" - is C&R and can be bought directly by a C&R holder or transferred via normal FFL process

A Winchester 94 made in 1987 is just a gun and must go thru regular FFL process

Thanks for the explanation, id10t. I was not aware of the legal distinction between a "curio and relic" and an "antique". The arms that my buddies and I are interested in are definitely old enough to qualify as "antique".



So, at 50 years old, it can already qualify as a "curio and relic"? Wow - first gen M16's are that old, as are M60's and other such modern, still issued military weapons. Interesting...