Whiling Away a Rainy Saturday

[Jeff Higgins]

By casting bullets. Fired up the old lead pot this morning, grabbed a few bullet molds, and went to work. Here is a typical casting session's production; three different bullets from three different molds for three different applications:



The bullets are, from left to right: the RCBS # 45-270 SAA, a nominal 270 grain bullet meant for the .45 Colt. Mine come out at 280 grains when cast from wheelweights. I load these over 16.5 grains of 2400 for just under 1,000 fps. Next is the Lyman # 452664, a modern variation of the original bullet used in the .45 Colt. This one adds a crimp groove and has a bit wider flat nose than the original. I load these over 40 grains of FFFg for, again, just under 1,000 fps. Next up is the RCBS .38-150 SWC, a 150 grain semi wadcutter for the .38 Special or .357 mag. I load these over 5.0 grains of 231 (in .357 brass) for a .38 Special +P level load, doing about 900 fps, or over 14.5 grains of 2400 for a .357 mag load that just breaks 1,400 fps.



The best part about all of this is that my bullets are essentially free. I get discarded wheel weights from the local tire shops, or they sell them to me for pennies a pound. All they cost me is my time. Not a bad use of a rainy Saturday morning...

[onlycafe]

free bullets, life is pretty good sometimes.

[flatbutt]

those look very clean. what brand of mold do you use?

[Don Ro]

You're actually gonna shoot those pretty things?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

those look very clean. what brand of mold do you use?

Left to right (in the second photo above), the molds are from RCBS, Lyman, and RCBS. In addition to those two manufacturers, I have molds from Saeco, LBT (Lead Bullet Technologies), Paul Jones, Hoch, and Thompson/Center.

They all cast excellent bullets, but some are definitely easier to use than others. I much prefer cast iron molds. The other common material is aluminum, which works well enough, but I find it harder to maintain a consistent mold temperature with it.

Below are the molds used for the two different .45 Colt bullets. Both are cast iron, double cavity. The larger of the two molds is from RCBS, mounted in a set of Saeco handles. The smaller mold is a Lyman, mounted in their handles. These two sizes represent more or less "standard" mold block sizes in the industry. They are used for handgun bullets and are typically cut with two cavities, or for rifle bullets where they are cut for two cavities for the lighter bullets and single cavity for the heavier bullets.





Below are examples of rifle molds cut on the same sizes of blocks. The bigger set is from Paul Jones, the smaller is another Lyman. The third one is a variation that many used for their match bullet molds - it pours from the nose, rather than the base like all of the others. This one is from Hoch. These are all three .45 caliber rifle bullets for the .45-70 and similar cartridges.

[Dan J]

Excuse the ignorant question. How do they work?

[Drdogface]

I see you are using the Bob Roller sprue plates.....

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Dan J

Excuse the ignorant question. How do they work?

That's not an ignorant question at all.

They work great, depending upon the application. The first things one must understand about cast bullets is that they are limited in velocity before they will start leading the barrel, and that for the most part they will not expand. If we approach their use with those two limiting factors in mind, I believe them to be the very best bullets available for their intended applications.

They excel as revolver bullets and, to a lesser degree, as pistol bullets. We won't find a more accurate bullet for either. We will never find a better hunting bullet for either. Their penetration is unmatched by any other kind of bullet. They are at their "sweet spot", velocity-wise, when fired from revolvers. It's a match made in heaven...

In rifles, they excel in the calibers in which they were originally used - things like the .45-70. They are at their best below 2,000 fps, and are best in calibers that do not rely upon expansion for their killing power. I've never used a more effective combination on game than my Marlin '95 in .45-70 with a 400 grain cast bullet at about 1,900 fps. Simply deadly on anything, and accurate too boot.

They don't make for very good hunting bullets in smaller bores, like the .30-'06 and similar high velocity numbers. They make great bullets for reduced velocity plinking ammo for these modern bottle necked rifle cartridges, but they can be tough to get consistent accuracy from in those applications. Cartridge cases are too big and powder charges too small for best results.

I used to shoot a lot of mid range (out to 600 yards) and long range (out to 1,000 yards) rifle matches, both with modern rifles shooting jacketed bullets from bottle necked cartridges, and with early (1870's) black powder cartridge rifles in calibers like .45-70, .40-40 Sharps Straight, .45-90 (.45-2.4") and .45-100 (.45-2.6"). Rules restrict the older rifles to cast bullets and black powder. On a calm day, our scores with the black powder/cast bullet rifles would pretty much match those shot with the modern rifles using jacketed bullets.

And, lastly, I don't think I have fired a bullet from a revolver in the last 20 years that I have not cast myself. Maybe even longer. I cannot buy bullets that work as well as those I cast myself.

[ZOO]

Originally Posted by Dan J

Excuse the ignorant question. How do they work?

Jeff, great earlier answer to this question. But I read it as "how do the molds work". Is it as simple as melting the lead and pouring? Are the vapours toxic?

[enzo1]

Originally Posted by ZOO

Jeff, Are the vapours toxic?

as in lead poisoning???

[John Rogers]

I see you are using a ladle? I tried that but ended with bottom pouring as I had trouble getting good 540 gr bullets. I found having two or three molds running help keep my molds at a good temp as I poured one, one solidified and the last was being emptied.

As for the vapors, yes they are toxic and I usually have a fan behind me and sit just outside the garage door as shown in the picture. I think I was making wad cutters with 6 cavity Lee molds and they seemed to work pretty well. Others not so great.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Drdogface

I see you are using the Bob Roller sprue plates.....

Actually, they are all just the standard sprue plates that came with the molds. I know the Roller sprue plates have a great reputation, but I have just never felt the need for them.

Originally Posted by john rogers

I see you are using a ladle? I tried that but ended with bottom pouring as I had trouble getting good 540 gr bullets. I found having two or three molds running help keep my molds at a good temp as I poured one, one solidified and the last was being emptied.

As for the vapors, yes they are toxic and I usually have a fan behind me and sit just outside the garage door as shown in the picture. I think I was making wad cutters with 6 cavity Lee molds and they seemed to work pretty well. Others not so great.

Yes, I'm using a ladle. Funny, I had exactly the opposite results - I couldn't get a decent 500+ grain match bullet by bottom pouring.

I cast in the garage with both doors open and a fan behind me. I get checked for lead in my yearly blood work when I go in for a physical - in almost 40 years of bullet casting, I have never had elevated levels. It's really pretty darn safe.

Originally Posted by ZOO

Jeff, great earlier answer to this question. But I read it as "how do the molds work". Is it as simple as melting the lead and pouring? Are the vapours toxic?

Oh - I'm sorry, I didn't read the question in that way at all. How do the molds work?

In my first picture in the first post, you can see a ladle and a lead pot. The pot is thermostatically controlled so you can dial it to a given temperature that works best for whatever you are casting. Some bullet molds like hotter lead, some like cooler lead. The ladle is used to scoop lead from the pot to pour it into the mold. Some pots, as John alludes to, have a valve that will open on the bottom to pour the lead out of. It's funny, the bottom pour pot vs. ladle dipping debate rages on in the bullet casting hobby much like the oil debate does in the car hobby.

In the first picture in my second post, you can see two molds mounted in mold handles - these handles are more or less universal and fit everyones' molds. The molds are in their closed positions, ready to pour lead into them through the big countersunk hole on the top. The ladle has a spout on it that fits nicely into this countersink.

Holding the mold in the left hand and ladle in the right, the mold is rotated 90 degrees clockwise and the spout on the ladle is held up against it. This spout is located at about 9:00 on the ladle, so when the ladle is upright in the scooping position, the spout is above its "waterline".

When the spout is in the hole, the whole works is rotated counterclockwise until the mold is straight up, and the lead pours from the ladle into the mold. When the mold is full, the ladle is removed, leaving a bit of a puddle on top of the mold - this puddle provides a bit of excess lead that is drawn into the mold as the cooling bullet shrinks inside of it.

Once this puddle on top is good and firm (it's called the "sprue"), we take a mallet and smack the extension on the sprue plate. This pivots it on its pivot screw on top of the mold, swinging it out of the way and cutting off the sprue. The sprue is returned to the pot, and the mold is opened by pulling the handles apart, and the bullet falls out. Close the handles, swing the sprue plate back over to its stop so it's closed, scoop more lead, and the pour the next one.

The second picture in my second post shows the molds open with the sprue plate swung out of the way.

Most of us like to keep at least two molds going at the same time. It takes long enough for the sprue to cool and harden on one that there is plenty of time to fill the other one. If the sprue is cut before the lead is hard enough, it won't cut cleanly - it will actually tear a crater in the bottom of the bullet and smear between the sprue plate and the top of the mold blocks. It's kind of a difficult mess to clean up when it does.

Most of us use readily available wheel weights that we get from the tire stores for the majority of our casting. The alloy is about 98% lead and 2% antimony to harden it a bit. For my long range match bullets, however, I like to use a 20:1 alloy of lead and tin. The tin does not harden it as much as the antimony, but it makes the larger molds we use in that game fill out better.

Antimony makes the bullets heat-treatable, tin does not. With antimony in the alloy, we can also drop them in a bucket of water to quench them and harden them that way. I've never bothered with either. Lead bullets don't have to be all that hard for how I use them. I think pure lead runs about 4-5 on the Brinell scale, wheel weights about 12 or so, 20:1 about 8-10. Some guys really like linotype (formerly used in the newspaper printing industry) for its very high antimony content - it can be oven heat-treated to over 20 on the Brinell scale (I think it runs about 15-18 if it's not heat treated). Modern centerfire rifle shooters like it because it allows them to boost velocities to over 2,000 fps without leading.

I have had great success with plain old wheel weights in my revolver shooting. It works great at anything from standard velocity .38 or .44 Special loads, black powder .45 Colt loads, all the way up to the most rompin' stompin' .357 and .44 mag loads we can assemble. It also works great in big bore, straight case rifle rounds. Anything under about 2,000 fps. When used on game, I have only recovered a very few bullets over the years - most penetrate fully, leaving a nice exit wound that bleeds them out very quickly.

[biosurfer1]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

If the sprue is cut before the lead is hard enough, it won't cut cleanly - it will actually tear a crater in the bottom of the bullet and smear between the sprue plate and the top of the mold blocks. It's kind of a difficult mess to clean up when it does.

Is it easier to just put it back in the pot and start over?

[Dan J]

Thanks for both explanations Jeff. I was wondering about the molding process
Now I know!

[ZOO]

Thanks for the details. This looks like a cool hobby. I guess you need cartridges or something to load them into after they come out of the mold?

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by biosurfer1

Is it easier to just put it back in the pot and start over?

Oh yeah - first "visual inspection" is when you knock the sprue plate open. Like an arrow, the base is the "steering end" of a bullet. Any defect there and it goes straight back into the pot without hesitation. The two common defects are the previously mentioned torn sprue hole, and a failure to fill out all the way to the edges all the way around. Both are easily seen as soon as the sprue plate is swung out of the way.

I open the mold over a folded over towel or old diaper, cushioning the bullets as they fall out. Before they are transfered to the box (shown in the first photo) they get their second visual inspection - I roll them, looking for any part that did not fill out. Any that didn't go back into the pot at this time. No sense shooting bad bullets...

My long range match bullets get yet one more inspection - I weigh them, revealing any internal voids, and sorting them into kind of a bell curve classification. Any slightly heavy or light ones get used as fouling shots, or set aside as "plinkers".

Originally Posted by ZOO

Thanks for the details. This looks like a cool hobby. I guess you need cartridges or something to load them into after they come out of the mold?

Yup. We reload them into cases for the caliber in question just like we would reload commercial jacketed bullets. That process is the same as any other metallic cartridge reloading.

There is one more step in between casting and loading into the bullet into case, though. Once cast, we run them through a press that looks much like a normal single stage reloading press, but it is fitted with what is known as a "sizing" die. This swages the bullet to its final diameter, plus it fills the lower groove or grooves with a lubricant to help keep barrel leading at bay. The press body itself is hollow and filled with the lubricant, which is forced out through holes in the sizing die by screwing down on a piston in that hollow body.

If you look at the bullets shown in my first post, you will notice the top and bottom grooves are distinctly different shapes. You will also notice a rather heavy crimp on the case mouths in the loaded rounds. So, the top groove is the "crimping" groove, the bottom the "lube" groove. Rifle bullets meant for black powder, or even some meant for smokeless, will have multiple lube grooves. Here are some .45 caliber rifle bullets (with a loaded .45 ACP cartridge for comparison). You will notice some are lubricated and some are not. (They will all eventually get lubed before loading into the case.)



Bullets, as they come out of the mold, are usually oversize by .001"-.003". For example, the .45 Colt bullets shown drop from the mold at about .454" diameter. I size them down to .452" for use in modern Colts and Rugers. The .38 Special / .357 mag bullet shown in my first post drops at about .359" diameter, and I size it to .358".

Choice of alloy affects as cast size; pure lead shrinks the most when it cools, harder alloys shrink the least. We shoot match bullets as-cast, using the lubricating and sizing press merely to apply the lube. We play with the tin content until they come out of the mold the size we want. I prefer my .45 caliber rifle match bullets be .460" diameter, or .002" over groove diameter for a .45 caliber rifle.

Originally Posted by Dan J

Thanks for both explanations Jeff. I was wondering about the molding process
Now I know!

You are quite welcome.

I really do enjoy this hobby. Molds are available for any diameter and weight one could imagine. This allows me to shoot some older firearms that otherwise could not be fired (due to a lack of commercially available ammunition, or bullets suitable for them, or whatever other reasons preclude their use). Plus, it allows me to extract a level of performance from modern firearms that could not be achieved in any other way, shooting bullet weights and designs not available for them commercially.

It is very much a tinkerer's or experimenter's hobby, with an endless variety of mold designs available for any given caliber. Experimenting with the different designs provides me with endless hours of cheap entertainment.

[Buckterrier]

Very nice Jeff. I used to reload, hopefully will again, but never going as far as casting bullets. Geez i have a tire shop right down the road. I'll have to check it out to see if I can have their lead.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Very nice Jeff. I used to reload, hopefully will again, but never going as far as casting bullets. Geez i have a tire shop right down the road. I'll have to check it out to see if I can have their lead.

It really is a great way to get fantastic bullets. A little time consuming, but we have pretty short days around here this time of year. Great for passing time on cold, dark, wet winter days.

I understand more and more tire shops are now charging for their cast off wheel weights, or have contracts with scrap metal recyclers that pick them up. I've never had any trouble getting them myself, so this may be regional or something. Even so, paying market prices for lead alloys still results in very, very cheap bullets. Many smelters have a variety of bullet alloys right "off the shelf".

Funny, though, even if it actually cost me more to cast my own, I would still do it. The bullets I can produce are that much better than the ones I can buy, at least for the applications for which I cast them.

[Buckterrier]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

It really is a great way to get fantastic bullets. A little time consuming, but we have pretty short days around here this time of year. Great for passing time on cold, dark, wet winter days.

I understand more and more tire shops are now charging for their cast off wheel weights, or have contracts with scrap metal recyclers that pick them up. I've never had any trouble getting them myself, so this may be regional or something. Even so, paying market prices for lead alloys still results in very, very cheap bullets. Many smelters have a variety of bullet alloys right "off the shelf".

Funny, though, even if it actually cost me more to cast my own, I would still do it. The bullets I can produce are that much better than the ones I can buy, at least for the applications for which I cast them.

Just went to the tire store. They have a couple fellows that come in, one for making sinkers the other for bullet making. And they charge for the lead. The guy wasn't sure how much, thought like $20-$25.00 for a bucket. He did say I could come down and buy if they had them. Buckets were empty but fill up fairly quickly. They do a ton of business.

I totally understand making your own. I found it rewarding, (maybe sounds funny to some), to assemble a couple hundred rounds. But you certainly have to completely concentrate on the task. Sometime ago I was shooting my model 29 I had reloaded for. I shot, heard a pop instead of a bang. Thank God the cylinder wouldn't rotate. I took the spoon off target looking at the cylinder/barrel gap. The bullet was lodged between the two. I obviously didn't charge the case but did prime it. If that thing had gone into the barrel and I shot another round... Well we don't need to go into the gory details Lesson learned.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

Just went to the tire store. They have a couple fellows that come in, one for making sinkers the other for bullet making. And they charge for the lead. The guy wasn't sure how much, thought like $20-$25.00 for a bucket. He did say I could come down and buy if they had them. Buckets were empty but fill up fairly quickly. They do a ton of business.

What I like to do is to give them my own bucket, and just check on it every once in awhile. Make sure your name is prominently written on it. Once you stop by a few times, they kind of feel they know you, and get pretty friendly about minding "your" bucket.

Originally Posted by Buckterrier

I totally understand making your own. I found it rewarding, (maybe sounds funny to some), to assemble a couple hundred rounds. But you certainly have to completely concentrate on the task. Sometime ago I was shooting my model 29 I had reloaded for. I shot, heard a pop instead of a bang. Thank God the cylinder wouldn't rotate. I took the spoon off target looking at the cylinder/barrel gap. The bullet was lodged between the two. I obviously didn't charge the case but did prime it. If that thing had gone into the barrel and I shot another round... Well we don't need to go into the gory details Lesson learned.

Yeah, reloading certainly can be rewarding - or it can quickly turn to disaster. It's all too easy to get lulled into a false sense of security and not give it its due attention. Such missteps are, as you discovered, very soon "rewarded". From there, it doesn't take long to establish (as best we humans are capable, anyway) your own "foolproof" routine, and the discipline to follow it. I think all reloaders go through this cycle, and get their one good scare, before the light really comes on. You got off easy, but I'm sure you realize that.

It's certainly worth doing, however, especially in this day and age. I can shoot any centerfire revolver or pistol caliber cheaper than I can shoot .22 rimfire today, with the current state of affairs. Plus, with the ability to cast, we are no longer dependent upon bullet supplies. Granted, we still need to come up with powder and primers, but removing one component from the "must scrounge" list really helps.