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-   -   Unions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/789256-unions.html)

Por_sha911 12-29-2013 06:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz (Post 7829323)
Why wouldn't the union protect the kid's pay rate instead of extorting $ out of him?

What they are demanding doesn't make any sense.

They should have calculated his pay rate and factored in their charges and realized it doesn't help the kid before making their demands.

I bet they don't even realize how much he makes and the economic turmoil their demands would create.

It's simple math.

How could this be good for anyone?

They should have just sent him their business card and an offer of support for him as a new worker in the USA in case he needs anything....no charge!

That would be helping instead of the negativity they created.

Doesn't anyone use common sense anymore?

That is really really stupid......how do they expect any worker to react when they expect them to lose money on the job.

Wow.........this should be illegal.

It's like robbery.

As well as stupidity.....
The union is a legalized organized crime protection racket. It doesn't care if paying the protection runs small company out of business. The new tenant will pay. The union doesn't care if the boy pays more than he makes. They know that they have to protect their turf by insisting 100% membership or others will not want to pay. Also, some will pay even if it is stupid to do so. His son is a worthless pawn in the union's war to keep the place a union store.

black73 12-29-2013 06:27 PM
The point is not racism. The point is stereotyping, prejudging and blanket accusations. I was using race as an example of how an entire group of people get discriminated against because of the actions of a few. But I think you all already know that, you are just not ready to deal with it. You can find anecdotal evidence to condemn any group, if that is your purpose. And the purpose of this thread clearly was to persecute unions. All unions. Some are trying to back away from their comments and say they weren't talking about the workers, but the union it self. The union is the workers, plain and simple. When you disparage the union, you disparage the workers. I think you all know that, also.

This should have been in PARF to begin with. How is this not a PARF topic? Maybe the OP did want any disagreement, only support, as is the rule in OT?

VaSteve 12-29-2013 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by black73 (Post 7829664)
. Some are trying to back away from their comments and say they weren't talking about the workers, but the union it self. The union is the workers, plain and simple. When you disparage the union, you disparage the workers. I think you all know that, also.

?
Is the president and the other staff of the union volunteers or are they paid? Or do they also work at the company where the union workers work?

Tobra 12-29-2013 07:03 PM
You don't need a union to bargain collectively Denis.

mreid 12-29-2013 07:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by black73 (Post 7829664)
Some are trying to back away from their comments and say they weren't talking about the workers, but the union it self. The union is the workers, plain and simple. When you disparage the union, you disparage the workers. I think you all know that, also.
You obviously don't have much experience in this area. You may try and play the idealistic approach that "the union and workers are the same". Completely untrue in real life. Since you seem bent on talking about the workers, I'll go there. Most union workers are hard working, decent people. The few knuckleheads aided by corrupt union leadership with an unproductive agenda and ignorance of the economics that drive business cause most intelligent people who try to do their best in life and at work to shake their heads in disgust. So, I would stop trying to make this about the hard working, decent union worker and focus on the real issue at hand.

Racerbvd 12-29-2013 08:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreid (Post 7829822)
You obviously don't have much experience in this area. You may try and play the idealistic approach that "the union and workers are the same". Completely untrue in real life. Since you seem bent on talking about the workers, I'll go there. Most union workers are hard working, decent people. The few knuckleheads aided by corrupt union leadership with an unproductive agenda and ignorance of the economics that drive business cause most intelligent people who try to do their best in life and at work to shake their heads in disgust. So, I would stop trying to make this about the hard working, decent union worker and focus on the real issue at hand.
Don't forget that the unions get all upset when the employers give the option of paying union dues to the actual employees, because they know when the workers have a choice, they choose NOT to pay the extortion fees, which is why the unions fight so hard to keep the burden the employers. Course a dumb-ass who admits to not pay attention to current events , yet chooses to chime in on things he clearly knows nothing about, or flat out chooses to play dumb & try and mislead the sheeple who aren't capable of holding a job without the government or unions shouldn't be involved in a grown up conversation. Why the hell does a grocery bagger need a union, you can't tell me some kid grows up wanted to bog groceries in his adult life:rolleyes:

mikester 12-29-2013 08:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mreid (Post 7829822)
You obviously don't have much experience in this area. You may try and play the idealistic approach that "the union and workers are the same". Completely untrue in real life. Since you seem bent on talking about the workers, I'll go there. Most union workers are hard working, decent people. The few knuckleheads aided by corrupt union leadership with an unproductive agenda and ignorance of the economics that drive business cause most intelligent people who try to do their best in life and at work to shake their heads in disgust. So, I would stop trying to make this about the hard working, decent union worker and focus on the real issue at hand.
I disagree. I've known plenty of union workers who were fantastic and whose work stood on its own not needing the union.

I worked for a local government organization for a few years and you could opt out of membership but not the fees.

I didn't last and nearly all of my issues were related to union mentality at work.

onewhippedpuppy 12-29-2013 08:12 PM
Quote:
The point is not racism. The point is stereotyping, prejudging and blanket accusations. I was using race as an example of how an entire group of people get discriminated against because of the actions of a few. But I think you all already know that, you are just not ready to deal with it. You can find anecdotal evidence to condemn any group, if that is your purpose. And the purpose of this thread clearly was to persecute unions. All unions. Some are trying to back away from their comments and say they weren't talking about the workers, but the union it self. The union is the workers, plain and simple. When you disparage the union, you disparage the workers. I think you all know that, also.<br>
<br>
This should have been in PARF to begin with. How is this not a PARF topic? Maybe the OP did want any disagreement, only support, as is the rule in OT?
Nope. There are a large number of lazy sacks of crap at my place of employment that are protected by the union and seniority. Men who will freely admit that they are retired in place because they know that the company can do nothing. Men whose workmanship is bordering on negligence, some in positions critical to flight safety in aircraft. Men who will leave at their designated time regardless of the impact to their assigned project. Men who are totally indifferent to the success or failure of their employer, ignorantly expecting a paycheck regardless. By my measure none are men, instead they are the recipients of a failed socialist system rooted in the realities of an 18th century workplace. Curious why blue collar jobs are being outsourced? The pro union camp would find the answer in the mirror.

grendiers 12-29-2013 08:32 PM
Well, after reading all of this, the bottom line is that there needs to be a balance. A balance of worker's rights (wages) being supported by unions, and, those supported by the rest. In between, you'll find wages supported by supply and demand, and those, not so much; being higher union wages. However, as much as you Repubs out there wish for a 100% market-driven wage structure, be careful what you wish for. You can ***** and moan all you want about individual stories, but, the overall impact of unions really help you and your brethren.

mreid 12-29-2013 08:46 PM
This last sentence above is very true.

RANDY P 12-29-2013 09:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grendiers (Post 7829902)
Well, after reading all of this, the bottom line is that there needs to be a balance. A balance of worker's rights (wages) being supported by unions, and, those supported by the rest. In between, you'll find wages supported by supply and demand, and those, not so much; being higher union wages. However, as much as you Repubs out there wish for a 100% market-driven wage structure, be careful what you wish for. You can ***** and moan all you want about individual stories, but, the overall impact of unions really help you and your brethren.
Unions kill themselves. Brush up on your history- they bargain themselves to their own death. No Republican intervention required.

PS- they don't do much anymore, there are laws to prevent abuse.

RANDY P 12-29-2013 10:03 PM
Is Boeing leaving WA?

"Boeing had originally planned to build the 777X in Washington state, but had sought concessions from union machinists that were resoundingly rejected.

“We preserved something sacred by rejecting the Boeing proposal. We’ve held on to our pensions and that’s big,” Tom Wroblewski, a representative of the union, said in a statement earlier this month. “At a time when financial planners are talking about a ‘retirement crisis’ in America, we have preserved a tool that will help our members retire with more comfort and dignity.”

Ok, so you saved the pensions. Boeing's answer- they cock back the hammer on the unions-Unions are oblivious to the fact they can kill the golden goose, as usual.

Boeing to Partly Move Production Out of Washington State Following Union Vote | Washington Free Beacon

“Since the union rejected the offer, we were forced to pursue all options for locating the 777X,” Boeing spokesman Doug Alder Jr. said. “That process is actively underway, although we are not disclosing which locations we are considering.”

...and the local Socialist dingbat that Seattle voted into office says:

“ rejection earned them praise from far-left labor supporters, including newly elected Socialist Seattle City Councilwoman Kshama Sawant. The only response we can have if Boeing executives do not agree to keep the plant here is for the machinists to say the machines are here, the workers are here, we will do the job, we don’t need the executives,” Sawant said at a Monday rally.":confused::rolleyes:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/bomb.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...ys/explode.gif

atcjorg 12-29-2013 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danimal16 (Post 7829309)
Human Resources works for management, pure and simple.
yup

atcjorg 12-29-2013 10:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerbvd (Post 7829854)
Don't forget that the unions get all upset when the employers give the option of paying union dues to the actual employees, because they know when the workers have a choice, they choose NOT to pay the extortion fees, which is why the unions fight so hard to keep the burden the employers. Course a dumb-ass who admits to not pay attention to current events , yet chooses to chime in on things he clearly knows nothing about, or flat out chooses to play dumb & try and mislead the sheeple who aren't capable of holding a job without the government or unions shouldn't be involved in a grown up conversation. Why the hell does a grocery bagger need a union, you can't tell me some kid grows up wanted to bog groceries in his adult life:rolleyes:
Well bad to generalize, first off our union "officials" do come from the bargaining unit, membership is VOLUNTARY About NATCA .
The grocery bagger may need a union that bargains for future pay raises and chances at advancement butcher, baker, checker etc that do get him benefits and raises, because we know business owners don't want to pay 1 red cent more than they have to, so they work everyone 32hrs a week so they don't have to pay benefits. yes the union spends 90 percent of their time defending 1% (the dumb-ass effect) but eventually they are weeded out.

mikester 12-29-2013 10:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by atcjorg (Post 7830014)
Well bad to generalize, first off our union "officials" do come from the bargaining unit, membership is VOLUNTARY About NATCA .
The grocery bagger may need a union that bargains for future pay raises and chances at advancement butcher, baker, checker etc that do get him benefits and raises, because we know business owners don't want to pay 1 red cent more than they have to, so they work everyone 32hrs a week so they don't have to pay benefits. yes the union spends 90 percent of their time defending 1% (the dumb-ass effect) but eventually they are weeded out.
No they aren't. I can't even count how many retired in place union folks I've run across.

atcjorg 12-29-2013 11:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikester (Post 7830020)
No they aren't. I can't even count how many retired in place union folks I've run across.
So you were a union employee also?

Buckterrier 12-30-2013 04:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Por_sha911 (Post 7827973)
+1
He will make more money in the 90 days before he is fired than if he works 12 months but has to pay the dues. How? Don't say anything. Just ignore the letters. When they come to visit say "Letter? What letter? Send me another one"
Encourage him to be sure to work hard right up the last day so that Ralphs is sorry to see him go because of the mafia, um, I mean, union. He'll need the reference at his next interview.
Haven't read the whole thread yet but this is so far the best advice imo.

mreid 12-30-2013 07:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikester (Post 7829869)
I disagree. I've known plenty of union workers who were fantastic and whose work stood on its own not needing the union.

I worked for a local government organization for a few years and you could opt out of membership but not the fees.

I didn't last and nearly all of my issues were related to union mentality at work.
I'm not sure where you disagree? We seem to be aligned?

As for HR, of course they work for management. So does everyone. Believe it or not, there are a few of us enlightened HR execs who understand that people are the real competitive advantage for our business and that our employee value proposition, when executed properly, creates an environment that attracts, inspires, and retains great talent. Treat people how you want them to treat your customers and the world is your oyster. I wouldn't work for a company that doesn't embrace this value.

WIL84911 12-30-2013 07:48 AM
They condone laziness which put us hard workers in a tough spot between them and the management which is why I left the Post Office 16 years ago and which I think is the Post Office's main problem why they're in a hole.

Moses 12-30-2013 08:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grendiers (Post 7829902)
You can ***** and moan all you want about individual stories, but, the overall impact of unions really help you and your brethren.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/24/business/union-membership-drops-despite-job-growth.html?_r=0

The Bureau of Labor Statistics said the total number of union members fell by 400,000 last year, to 14.3 million, even though the nation’s overall employment rose by 2.4 million. The percentage of workers in unions fell to 11.3 percent, down from 11.8 percent in 2011, the bureau found in its annual report on union membership. That brought unionization to its lowest level since 1916, when it was 11.2 percent, according to a study by two Rutgers economists, Leo Troy and Neil Sheflin.


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