George, I believe when interviewing former burglars the #1 deterrent to breaking into a home was a dog. Not a bad way to start.

Another reason why they don't like dogs is it alerts the owner or neighbor and the burglar becomes the victim.

Yup. The sound of a barking dog inside is enough to spur most burglars on to your neighbor's house. Lots of lighting and alarms are also frequently mentioned.

I live in a rural area with lots that are a minimum of 10 acres (wooded). Neighbors are not close by. LE are at least 30 minutes away driving (assuming they come immediately, but there are only a handful and they might be preoccupied. Like others have posted, it seems that without a weapon, I am not really able to protect my family. Especially as I age and slow down a bit.

That said, I recently added an ADT alarm here and in my second home. Someone broke into my second home in another state a few months back and stole all the appliances from the home. This was in a small, high-end, gated community in broad daylight. After that, I felt particularly vulnerable and added the alarms. I am very pleased with them and like the fact that I can monitor them on my Iphone. I also set the alarm every night when I go to bed...even though I was mainly concerned about being robbed when I was away. If the alarm did not scare someone away, it would give me plenty of time to prepare a response and would also alert LE, allowing me additional prep time upstairs.

Personally, I'm not a 'gun nut', whatever that is. I just recognize the right to own and use one. During the incident described earlier, I used both the gun and the phone with law enforcement. Had the perp not backed down after seeing the gun, he most likely would have kicked the door in well before law enforcement arrived. They were slow arriving because the roads were iced over. Without a gun and him inside my house? I guess I could have tried to reason with him, offer him a hot coffee, cower in a closet, beg for my life, or maybe he was just delivering a late-night bouquet of flowers ... yeah, probably should have given him the benefit of the doubt :rolleyes:

Many years ago in my single days I had a girlfriend spend the night. About 2:30 AM someone was pounding on my front door trying to come through it. Back then I had a doberman and she was barking and growling at the door and making noises that would have made me wet my pants if she did that looking at me making those noises.

All I had in the house for a weapon was a big butcher knife. :eek: I have never been in a knife fight and I don't want to try it.

Fortunately my dog made the guy decide to leave. I never saw him or whoever it was. I was shaking and scared. I decided then and there it was time to purchase a handgun.

The girlfriend later tells me her ex boy-friend is a stalker and that he was likely the one pounding on the door. We broke up soon after that.

Personally I would rather have a revolver in hand than a shotgun for reasons mentioned above and also because that is what I am comfortable with. I can shoot a shotgun and do reasonably well with clays even out to the 27 yard line, but I have thousands of rounds with a handgun and can hit a hard drive at 25 feet without having to use the sights, which is actually a good way to destroy the data and have fun at the same time. No, I am not a crack shot at all but as was mentioned it is what I shoot all the time and know how it all works by instinct.

With a handgun you have more options for cover and don't have to expose as much of yourself and it is much easier to lean around a corner with a handgun over a long gun.

This really depends on how folks classify home defense. I have no intention of "leaning around a corner" with my SG but rather retreat to a place where I can cover the access doorway with family behind me. Phone on speaker with 9-1-1. I'll leave the room/house sweep for the authorities.

Brent - you are absolutely correct in picking the firearm you are most comfortable with. My post above in no way is meant to argue that. Only to point out that actively seeking out a home intruder to shoot and kill may very well get you killed or in one hell of a lawsuit.

David, I agree. Retreating to the farthest room while telling the intruder you are armed waiting for the police, you still need to be hidden if they continue to advance your direction. It may be a bathroom door, closet, whatever, I would want room to get a hand out but not an arm when there is nowhere else to go. Mostly I would not want to be in that situation in the first place.

What do you think of this? When my kid was living alone her bedroom was on the second floor. We mounted a VERY, VERY bright light at the top of the stairs aimed straight down the stairs. She had a panic button next to the bed to turn it on. We tested it with the house completely darkened. I was at the bottom of the stairs heading up when she turned it on. I was prepared for it but lemme tell ya' I couldn't see shyt. It gave her time to get to the fire escape. She never had to use it but I thought it was clever.

All, take a look at this video.

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Another issue, racking the slide either:

1. Showed the intruder you were not ready
2. You just tossed away a perfectly good shell

Depending on the type of intruder, assuming they even hear you rack the slide, only some will be deterred. Someone high on meth will probably not hear or care.

Should have pulled a Jeff Foxworthy and told the guy you were the girl's hairdresser........

Treat her Right

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http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-politics-religion/728290-self-defense.html

Having 911 on the phone and yelling at the intruder to "get out, the police have been called, I am armed" is a good way to prevent going to jail if the invasion continues and you have to shoot. Especially if you have an alarm going off in the back ground. Shoot till he is no longer a threat.

Bernie P

I love PA.

I do not have to, nor will I, shout a warning, rack a shotgun or retreat to the recesses of MY HOME to accomadate a POS criminal.

It would suck killing someone, even a POS that broke into my home.

It would suck ALOT more if by my inaction, or degree of inaction, that my family was injured or killed.

In PA, not being a police officer, I have no obligation to shout a warning nor fire a warning shot if the above mentioned POS crosses the threshold of my door.

I've been told the sound of a shotgun being racked will go right through an engine block.

Wasp spray. Shoots 50 feet.

rjp

Anyone ever short shucked a shotgun?

I have, hunting turkeys before when I needed a second shot at one on the run.....

THAT is the reason my HD shotty is a mossy 930

18 inch barrel, pistol grip with buttstock, 12 ga AUTO LOADER with magazine extension.

I hope I never have to use it for the primary purpose for which it was purchased. However, once the music starts, you better be ready to dance....http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1388795302.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1388795346.jpg

I have a CZ 75B, too that I keep ready for immediate use. I really do not like a hand gun for home defense, however....... especially for people who do not practice a lot.

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There ya go. A real world encounter. All you guys who think the sound of racking a pump shotgun will scare him off and act as a warning shot gotta get real about what is going on. If you really don't want to kill an invader and just want to disable them for a time, use rubber buckshot, but you don't have time in the real thing to play the "do you know what this sound is?" game.

It's only one anecdote, but it also shows that the average thief isn't breaking into your home SWAT style with flash bangs and an MP5. Most are like this, just a stupid drugged up coward. If possible I would much rather scare off the unarmed crackhead vs the "guns blazing" approach that some advocate. I think having a death on your conscience would take some time to get over, even a justified one.

how about a Browning Auto-5 with no plug (5 rounds) and a noise-maker on it that sounds like a Remington Pump?

Man the Auto 5 is a big heavy gun..

But the white house wants to limit us to break action guns so in the future their dream is the bad guy would hear and be able to identify the action closing and run back to the safety of their gov't welfare checks, food stamps and obamaphones.....


I pity those people who actually ever fire a shotgun with a pistol grip. Jeebus is that not a fun thing to do.

But it looks so cool.:rolleyes:

It is absolutely vital to keep these four rules in mind even in a home defense situation.

For those who feel using rubber bullets or rock salt is a good idea, consider this: I will gladly use those types of projectiles as long as the perp agrees to do the same. The chances of the perp agreeing with me are NONE. While I prefer NOT to use justifiable deadly force in a home defense situation, I prefer MORE that unlawful deadly force is NOT used on me.

The way I see it, there are three discussions here:
1. Do I warn the perp who broke in my house or not?
2. What condition do I keep my firearm in: locked and cocked (loaded, one in the chamber, safety on) or cruiser ready (hammer down, empty chamber, safety off), or some other setup...
3. Shotgun vs. handgun for home defense.

I think there are valid points to make for all combinations of the above, since home defense is a very situational scenario.

I have read that there are three measures to a good home defense argument in court: ability, opportunity, and jeopardy:
1. The perp has to have the ability to cause death or 'great bodily injury.' The perp may not need a gun to do this -- a 300 lb muscle laden doped up man with a pipe wrench in his hand can put a world of hurt on someone.
2. The perp has to have the opportunity to use deadly force or cause 'great bodily injury.' If the perp is outside my house and is not attempting to break in, he does not have the opportunity to do this.
3. I feel that my life is in jeopardy. The perp is not only in my house, but I feel that his intentions are to either kill me/my family or cause 'great bodily harm.'

I live in New Jersey, where gun ownership is frowned upon. (Law abiding citizens who own guns are essentially guilty until proven innocent when it comes to the draconian gun laws this state has). Thus, if someone broke into my house, and I used my weapon on them, EVEN if it was justifiable, I will still be arrested and charged.

The police headquarters of my town is less than a mile from my home, so the police are literally minutes from my home. However, when it takes only seconds for a perp to kill me, minutes away is too long.

So, given my situation of living in the state of NJ, if a perp is in my house, this may be how my scenario would play out:
1. Bring my firearm to the ready while my wife calls 911.
2. If it is nighttime, stay in our bedroom. We have no children, so we can easily take up a defensive stance in our room. If we are not in our bedroom, upon first evidence of threat, we retreat to our bedroom. (There are other scenarios too, of course)
3. Call out to perp - "Who are you? Get out of my house. The police are on the way. I have a gun."
4. If perp does not chose to leave, then I can assume that he has the ability and opportunity to kill us or cause great bodily harm to us. If he is moving towards us, our lives are now in jeopardy.
5. If that bedroom door opens, then justifiable deadly force will be used. No warning shot, no rubber bullets. Justifiable (and legal) deadly force.

My plan may not be the best plan, but I believe it improves my odds of survival, as well as improving my odds of staying out of jail. It is a plan - maybe not the best plan, but I have a plan. When someone is in my house and my adrenaline dump has taken place, I'd rather have some sort of plan to use than to rely on improvisation unless it is necessary to alter the plan. Consider your situation -- is your firearm locked and cocked? In cruiser ready mode? Do you have a shotgun or handgun? Optimize your plan for what tools and situation you have.

-Z

Z man, you hit the nail on the head. If you shoot some one in your house you will likely be arrested and an investigation will start. You have defended your home now you must justify your actions to the DA. He or she will decide if you will be charged. Having 911 on an open line and telling the perp to get out ect. will go a long way to keep you out of jail. I've been told this from a seasoned defense attorney that has handled many of this type of case.

Bernie

Sad, but I know it is true in some places. In KS the bottom line is that someone breaking into your home is automatically considered a threat to your life, and you are justified in taking any action to stop them. Outside of the home gets much more complicated, as you must show that you had reason to fear for your life. Unfortunately this means you can't shoot car thieves.

last week a guy in Coos bay blew away one (of two) burglars while they were running away - no charges filed

he'd scared them somehow then drew down and fired as they were running - cops told him: you really aren't supposed to do that; case closed

Years ago in my hometown there were two guys that got into an argument, one went home while the other went to the bar. The guy at the bar got loaded and then went to the other guy's home to continue the dispute. He was outside the front door yelling "I'm going to kill you" when he was shot multiple times through the door (cheapo mobile home) with a 12 gauge. No charges pressed, as he had reason to fear for his life.

BTW: If you or your spouse calls 911, the first thing you should say is your address at least twice, especially if using a cell phone to call. Don't rely on the caller ID system of the police, and if you are in a panic or get disconnected, at least the police know where to go.

-Z-man.

One nice thing about Illinois is that it is in effect a Castle Doctrine state by precedent*. In other words, if someone is in your home and you did not invite them, you may presume they are there to cause death or great bodily harm--deadly force is justified.

It's very rare for the homeowner to be arrested in these circumstances*.


*Except in Cook County, where people are subjects and not citizens.

In this state we can shoot an intruder with no warning. The law is named for Dirty Harry. It is called the "Make my Day" law. Really. Yes Really.

God bless the midwest, where things still make sense. If somebody breaks into your house it's a pretty safe assumption that he's not a bible salesman.

just aim at them while they are running away and then yell "hey - free candy" - fire when they turn around

Then drag them back inside, right?:cool:

This is precisely why we need (and many states are now passing) "stand your ground" or "castle doctrine" laws. The above is simply too much to consider when under that kind of stress. Sure, pretty easy to deconstruct after the fact, second guessing the home owner's every decision, every move, in the comfort of a courtroom with some career-climbing DA. In real time, "maybe" just might get the home owner and/or his loved ones killed. Thank God so many states have come to their senses and now side with the home owner.