Ummm.... NO

Yo Yo, don't you have green ink? :D

Go talk to a soldier that has been in real combat and get back with me. My dad wouldn't talk about Vietnam until I was grown and out of the house, which was 40 years later. Even killing people that are trying to kill you is hard to cope with.

Matt, I've talked to plenty and yes I've had ONE that would talk about Nam. In war yes maybe there is. It's a huge difference between war and thugs. I'm talking thuggery not war.

Not even close to the same thing as defending one's self or family against a violent thug. As a matter of fact, studies indicate that other than the trauma associated with being the target of a violent crime, most of those who emerge victorious over their assailant feel pretty damn good about it.

Of most of the guys that I've heard openly talking about Vietnam, with a little prying you find out that they were cooks or mechanics. For the guys actually crawling through the underbrush it's a different story. All I knew for years was that my dad was there as 1st Air Cav and that it was a hellish experience. He still won't go into much detail on his experiences.

I hope to never find out, but I think I would feel pretty bad about taking anyone's life, even a scumbag that deserved to die. Maybe I'm just not a hardened badass like you guys.:cool:

I hope to God I never do either. But if I did and didn't panic, pussy out, or puke and did off the bad guy I really think I wouldn't feel bad.
I'll tell you, unlike most Pelicans I've had a pretty rough life, at least in my younger years. Lived in a car, no job, showering at a state beach, etc. As bad as I did have it, (got a few breaks and taken advantage of them), I'd NEVER rob someone of what they've earned. If I did, was shot & killed, my bad.

Can I have a hug now? :D

Make no mistake - I would probably piss myself (just for starters) if it ever came to that. I would really worry about my ability to remain calm and focused if either my family or I were ever in mortal danger. No tough guy, no bad ass here. I just think in the long term, in those reflective, retrospective moments it just wouldn't bother me. It wouldn't give me much of a warm glow, either, but I think I would be pleased to remember I "won"...

I think I would be scared to death and ticked off beyond comprehension that someone would put my family in danger. When it is all said and done I don't know how I would feel other than it is a better outcome than harm to my family.

I live in Canada right now, we have a sort of "castle doctrine": if a criminal breaks into your house, you are supposed to treat them like a king.
Jokes aside, the biggest mistake regarding firearms is the belief that you buy it, hide it, and hope to never see it again.
As to the "I short shucked once so I bought an auto..."...I can't even begin to point out the many shades of backwards in that logic. Not that modern autos aren't reliable, but substituting the possibility of a ones own mistake (which can be remedied with training) for the possibility of a failure to feed (over which you will have no control nor warning) is silly.
Having said that, with full power high brass defensive loads, and a high quality firearm like the mossy, I'd sleep sound.
Despite what the liberal media shoves down our throats, armed, law abiding good people defend themselves all the time, and yes, often crimes are diffused by the very possibility of an armed citizen lawfully protecting their life and family. When all you have are seconds, police are just minutes away. Ill gladly deal with legal fallout compared to knowing my family was harmed and I did nothing. Even here in the people's republic of Canada where criminals have more rights than I do.

This seemed appropriate.

http://www.shop.crazydazefarm.com/im...677906441.jpeg

My two Heelers are the best alarm system I can ever have. ( plus I have my Boxer/Pit mix for audio visual backup..) They are vehemently protective of our house and property. A person cant get within an inch of our property line without them freaking out. One always sleeps in our bedroom with us and the other always stays in view of the front door. They will even switch off . They are amazing.

"......a high quality firearm like the mossy...."

They're ok, of course, but I don't think I'd be quite so generous as that.

I'm happy I haven't had a situation like that either. The worst was having a guy (level 4 sex offender) take a shotgun off the rack and use it to put a round in his head in the parking lot (he brought his own ammo). A couple of customers and myself were glad he didn't want to take anyone along with him. It wasn't one of my better days at the pawn shop, but I've had no bad dreams out of the affair either.
Jim

I bought a 1911 on the street when I was 19. I didn't grow up in a low income area but I really wanted a WW!! colt 45. a few nights later I'm in bed and I hear someone creeping around my parents garden outside of my window. I slide off of the bed grab the 1911, load the magazine into place pulled the slide back ant started taking aim at where I heard the noise. The window was open and off comes my window screen. I removed my finger from the trigger guard and started tacking up slack as a head filled the sights. I asked "who's there" It was my sister coming home late from a date.


I know who I am and I'm glad that I asked but if the person would have been hostile and made another move they would have not made another.

I have a lot of experience hunting with pump shotguns. Hunting is absolutely nothing like home defense. Get all the practice you want ontario canada, it will make very little difference when you have to respond in a panic, adrenalin dump, woke out of a sound sleep or what ever.

I agree with the premise that one should be very familiar with their choice of HD weapon, practice with it frequently ect. My point, which you missed completely in your know it all arrogance, is the fewer things that can go wrong the better one's odds are of coming out on top.

I choose the 930 auto loader after specing out my HD needs with careful thought and research over a period of about 18 months. I didn't want just ANY auto loader.

The advice was given with that thought and background experience, and I would give it again. It wasn't good advice for you......... I get that.

It depends on the person. Some get over it better than others. There are many out there that have fought wars and survived mentally after having killed others. No different if somebody enters your house and you are protecting your family and yourself.

There are lots of ex service people walking around mentally scarred and that included my father who was a bomber pilot during WW2. You do what you have to do. How you feel after killing depends on YOU.

That is a nice segue into a question that I was going to ask. Of the "shoot first and ask questions later" crowd, how many of you have kids? My CCH instructor had a very similar story to Jim's. Late at night, he is awoken by a crash in the kitchen. He grabs his nightstand handgun and creeps into the kitchen with the safety off, takes aim, and prepares to shoot.........his teenage son, who was supposed to be staying at a friend's house but instead came home. He was making a late night snack in the kitchen and dropped something.

"Shoot first ask questions later" Now there is a philosophy that has "a lot shades of backwards" with it.

One of my biggest frustrations in the hunting game is hunters who do not practice the ten commandments of gun safety. These straight forward rules make a lot of sense and anyone who owns a gun or even rents one at a shooting range should be able to spout off all ten by memory.

And hunting is a voluntary sport, (most of the time) where as self defense comes as a complete surprise and MUST be planned for.

Agreed.
One of them...identify your target and what's behind your target.

6 of the "10 commandments" are NOT what you should be following for a defensive situation. They are great for the hunter who fires three rounds a year.

Jeff Cooper's "4 rules" are (which are four of the "10 commandments") the mindset to maintain.

Unless, of course, you think the perp will wait until you put on eye and hearing protection, or wait until you load your spoon. Or perhaps he'll wait until you have function-checked your spoon.

Gretch that reminds me many years ago I was walking my white dog (part shepherd part samoyed - bushy tail sticking up in the air). This was cottage country in Northern Ontario in a quiet lane and the dog was running free. A couple of walkers came along and one said to me you better watch your dog. It could get shot. I said why and he said it looked like a wolf....unbelievable.:eek:

agree blue sky, however, I don't recommend short cuts when teaching weapon handling to newbies......

At my range you learn all the rules and there are zero exceptions.

I have to agree that how you respond to taking a life depends on you. The problem is that you don't know how you will respond until after the fact. I have seen many people deal with this issue and was alwasy pretty surprised by how each person handled the situation. I was wrong at least half the time as far as how I thought the individual would handle the stress. This was after months of training with each person fully expecting to face the possibility of killing someone.

My thoughts go to training: NEVER pull a weapon unless you intend to use it.

Could people face charges in certain jurisdictions? "Biden's warning shot" is a first degree felony in his state, cyclying a round I believe is assault with deadly weapon (please, I could be wrong about this). The cycling indicates intent. If your life is not in danger why did you go to that extreme? If your life is in danger why did you not fully protect yourself?

Of course, if you keep the tool locked away and unloaded then cycling a round is unavoidable.

On my old, nasty 60 year old revolvers the safety is the hammer. Pull it back and point and click. Cycling rounds is surprisingly quick and easy even in a SAA. Distance (lack thereof to allow for your actions) is what works against you.

In a home defense situation, if one hears a suspicious noise in one's house, and is able to arm himself, but has not been able to identify who is making the noise, I believe a firm and loud Who are you? Get out of my house! The police are coming! I have a gun! is sufficient to get that person's attention.

While you may reveal your location in your home (unless you pipe your message through an intercom system), I believe you setup the situation effectively to the intruder - whether that intruder is an innocent, or a perp: the way that person reacts to your message will determine the outcome of the situation.

If the intruder choses to attack you, hopefully you are in a defensive position (for you and others in the house) where you have the tactical advantage (effective cover, good line of sight...etc) and you have minimized the opportunity for the perp to gain the upper hand. If you need to move to another room (child's room, for example), hopefully have have prepared yourself and can effectively clear the space between you and the destination, and are prepared to take action if necessary.

To the experts out there -- is this a feasible situation, or a bad idea?

-Z

Well, I guess it's pretty clear from the way you phrased that that you believe some of the folks on this thread fit into this "'shoot first and ask questions later' crowd". I don't get that impression whatsoever from anyone here. I find it curious enough that you have somehow arrived at that impression, that I'm compelled to ask "how?". How on earth did you extract anything remotely like that from this thread?

Relax Jeff, it was a joking way of expressing the no warning concept. I wasn't in any way implying that anyone here is an irresponsible cowboy. I don't think any of my responses to this thread have implied that.

Thanks - you had me worried. I think we have a fairly responsible group of gun enthusiasts here on PPOT. I couldn't imagine any one of them thundering down the hall, sixguns a'blazin', and ending up with "sorry honey, I shot the kids..." :eek:

On a serious note, though, z-man has it spot on - bark out a clear, concise warning. Give 'em a second or two, then go blazin' down the hall... ;)

I'm not worried, it's doubtful they get past the claymores in the yard.

"Get all the practice you want..."- yup, actually practice and lots of it is exactly what you need most to perform under stress. You can't buy or automate your way out of that. That statement, along with your defensive insecurity pretty much tells me all I need to know.
Obviously compensating for something...

I do not have time to read 5 pages and i am sure it has been said -
NEVER ever
load, point, rack aim
UNLESS YOU plan on following through....or it will just go very very bad for you.

Mentioned many times, can't be said enough. No such thing as an unloaded gun, don't point your gun at something you don't want to kill, finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot, always know what is beyond your target. I repeat those rules to my son every time we go shoot.

Ive been in similar position. A long time ago I walked into my apartment and found a guy about to walk out with my suitcase packed full of my stuff.

He ofcourse, had the complete advantage and if Id had a shotgun he'd have had that too.

As it was, we went at it in a big way, trashed the place even more, I kept most of my stuff and learnt that its very hard to stop someone who just wants to get away.

However twenty years later, we're both still alive. And by now I wouldn't be missing that VCR anyway.

Inthe world of the military, never give away your position..its not the tactile thing to do.
You might have to adjust your story to your attorney
AND, in this country it it used to be thought you just need a attorney when guilty..not so any more.!
What ever you say..might be worked against you

I think your best bet is to have the wife call 911, then ensure that your warnings to the intruder are loud enough to be picked up by the 911 dispatcher. That way if you are forced to shoot the guy there is evidence of the verbal warning prior to pulling the trigger.

As long as your state has some sort of castle doctrine I think your on safe ground if the person is actuall within your home when you shoot.

I winder how screaming 'I see the light' compares to chambering a 12g?

In this state if they are inside my house I can shoot them. No need to want them, I don't have to retreat, I just need to call the clean up crew after the cops haul the corpse away.

Not necessarily. I believe even NJ has a castle doctrine in place, however, if the jeopardy to my life is no longer present, I cannot shoot. IE: If a perp is out the door, and my life is no longer in danger, I cannot shoot him in the back, even if he has taken my highly sought after 2nd generation iPad. ;) One may argue that a person in my house, no matter where he is, or where the bullets enter constitutes a 'jeopardy' condition, but that may be hard to explain with a corpse in your entryway with entry wonds in his back.

As I stated, if you can prove the perp had the ability and opportunity to jeopardize your/your family's life, you have a good HD case. If the threat is gone (the guy is leaving), it will be difficult to show that your life is in jeopardy.

That said, if I have given him warning that he is to leave my home because I am armed, and he continues to come towards me (based on the location of my voice), then all three (ability, opportunity, jeopardy) can be easily proven, especially if 911 is listening on the other end. But if I am to give him a warning (and subsequently give away my location), I better be in a position where I have cover and a clear shot, and he does not. (IE: behind a dresser with a line of sight to the door which the perp has to go through to get to me.)

Regarding calling 911 -- the first thing I've learned to say is my address. Then if there is time, it would be helpful to describe what you look like, and what you are wearing, so when the police arrive, they will know who the homeonwer is. (ex: "I'm a 25 year old male, weigh 225 lbs, and am wearing Hello Kitty pajamas.") I've heard stories where a robber actually wore pajamas and a robe, and as he was leaving the home would tell the police that the perps are still in the house!

-Z-man.

That is the type of story that warms my heart. A POS is gone from the population. I do feel bad for Elzie. Forced to kill a POS.