I don't remember him, but then again, we have a lot of folks who pass through AOG. Most don't stick around very long, for various reasons - usually related to the travel, hours, and that kind of thing. It's not for everyone. Sounds glamorous at first, but when the reality of months away from home in some of the world's true "garden spots" (Third World sheetholes where they can't fix their own damn airplanes) sinks in, many leave for something else.

They never did figure out what bit me, and I still can't get the ring back on that finger...

I asked as well, and laid out what I do as a challenge for him to do the same. Guaranteed, it ain't gonna happen.

I suspect you are right. Fortunately, we won't have to wait for an answer from the OP; Rusty Heap has provided us with what is likely his career path:

All I know is that Engineering draws the oddest people.

That was never really in question. :D

Captain Ahab,

very well said, and I'm re-inserting a quote I heard from a very humble sourse:



"As an engineer, I don't class myself as being an expert as the more I know the more I know I don't know but I would say I know more than most people, even the people that think they know more. I am far from being clever but I am good at what I do and tend to look at stuff from a different perspective than other people I work with."


As an engineer myself, we're all there to make our management happy. Cost, Quality, Schedule (you can only pick two out of those 3)

I provide solution A, solution B, and as a fall back, and solution C as just a wild idea.

"Dear Brain Dead Political Posturing Management dood.......... Mr Boss in the big chair feeding me salary growth" , YOU decide the final solution, as he's sitting in the big chair, if the "the chart" ain't happy, nobodies happy.

I just make things work. I've seen MILLIONS of dollars ($5-6 mil) wasted on a 747 moving line (yes at an 1/4" an hour) yawn, , that all revolved around a Subaru rear differential that someone dumpster dived and found in their garage...............moonshine shops have their place, defining specification control documents, firm requirements, and exit criteria are a must. Otherwise you're just pissssssing money away while the Lean 5S circus is in town for a couple months, then they up-pitch their tent and move on to the next bulging budget............all with good intentions, but then a turd is left in someone's yard to be shoveled up and tossed.


Simple. Define Requirements. Meet those requirements. Otherwise you're just whacking off to a Farrah Faucet poster that ain't going to happen in real life.

There is Farmer engineering and that has it's place...........on a farm............in industry, those silly little things called state and federal laws, NEC, UL, NFPA, Building codes, ASME, are why engineers, well, went to school and can do math instead of using a guy that once installed a car stereo in high school using scotch tape on wiring to do your multi million dollar design and install.


Happy to provide Farrah Fawcett images to the poser engineers:


https://www.google.com/search?q=Farrah+Fawcett+images&hl=en&qscrl=1&rlz=1 T4GGLL_enUS416US416&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa= X&ei=YlTQUpjTMc3DoASx0oGgCg&ved=0CCkQsAQ&biw=1920& bih=930

If you want entertainment, just look up "engineers" on Google images. Lots of beautiful people in hard hats and collared shirts pointing at things.

http://www.onlinedegrees.org/pics/civil-engineer-1.jpg

When in reality, this is much closer to the truth.

http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.0...on/milton1.jpg

Best answer.

What makes you think that? I just asked a question.

You didn't ask a question in good spirit.

And he has ignored several requests to answer THE question.

When I was working in construction and saw the architect and engineers pulling up to the job site I would turn to the crew and say "here come the pointers". :D

I may not but apparently more than you ;)

Awesome job Jeff!

I have read all 9 pages of this and I agree with Hugh. I have a BSME form U of IL and my skills have taken me beyond my days on a drafting board, I'm not about to justify my skills, ability and successes to anyone from the originator of the post or anyone else who has commented . Who are you to judge me! I could but won't judge anyone's skill sets or abilities.

Do any of you really want to grade your skills or education on this board? Nine pages of junk on a shotgun post, You are sheep to just reply! Sorry, I took the bait too!

I doubt it. You do not take into scale cost and schedule. Remember if you can't pay for it or it is late, it is useless.

But it was fun.

Did you put your pocket protector in wrong? or are you just having a bad day??


Yet you did just that...

If you tell someone at a social gathering that you are an Engineer... its often followed by a deer in headlights look...and then diminishing small talk...

My response to the trolls post was to refute "its just a 4 year degree"

The mindset and training to become an Engineer starts way before you get to High School and University...

re-arranging the HO railroad.... arranging new slot car layouts..... modifying your Rupp Roadster...Making a Schwinn a Chopper...

In Kindertgarden... building he best wall of blocks...

Sammy and several others have helped me in my endeavors several times here ..
Cant fault these guys..
and ... I so do appreciate the help!
(sorry cant remember everyone's name to hand out the credits )

I'm just saying engineers come across as weird to normal people. It may be arrogance or it may just be their social awkwardness.

Or maybe, they just know that no one wants to listen their gobbledygook nonsense.

I guess one has to appreciate numbers....they have a language all their own.
I am teased by numbers....infatuated....But i do not know their alphabet

Many times I have met someone and I realize that 5 minutes after the conversation I don't remember their name. Or I will see someone so often that I don't use their name and I find I can't remember it, but they know mine... It is rather frustrating. For some reason numbers and theories seem to stick right away. It is weird and I freely admit it. My only explanation is that certain numbers like 6 and 4 are repeated in the structure of the world (4 bonds in many molecules/covalent unit cells, 6 degrees of freedom, 6 bonds in carbon, the excellent balance of flat and inline 6 cylinder engines :)). So names seem somewhat random to my messed-up mind.

Ok I'm not sure if this has been posted as yet. This is the best and most accurate description of the engineer.

The Knack (Dilbert) (vosta vostfr) - YouTube

Steve the other half of Angela

I'd say that there are (at least) two kinds of engineers. There are those that excel at modeling/analyzing/tweaking things in the spirit of optimization and there are those that groove on making the whole thing happen.

Neither can survive without the other.

Kind of like "inward/downward" and "outward/upward" management.

It takes both kinds to run the world...

We _really_ suffer from the habit of taking good component engineers and promoting them into bad systems engineers - or even worse - managers.

Why, oh why, don't they realize that those are different disciplines?

We abuse and dead-end the careers of good fundamental engineers. Not everyone aspires to powerpoint-land and management. Some just want to be really good at what they do...

So, when Engineers question Gearya's education before they respond to his question, aren't they just proving his point?

Don't get me wrong, Living 30 years in a Boeing town, I know a lot of engineers.....They have many strong points and have helped me out many times. Usually, people skills are not high on their list of strong traits......(I hate to generalize, especially when that's what started this thread.)

You may be right because you totally lost me with that quick right hander!

You mean I should have been an engineer??? Loved my slot cars. I messed with the cars more. I remember making an AMX from a car, cutting the back off and painting red, white, & blue.
Then the Schwinn chopper. I made two. One the conventional way if you will by putting a 2nd pair of forks on the first. Of course that wasn't long enough. So I cut a sissybar apart filled the tubes with concert for strength and attached them to the forks. Now that was a chopper!!! I could hardly peddle it as the front end would want to pop up lol.

Never went to kindergarden so don't know much about wall bulding :(

Tim, Danimal,

Fair is fair.

I have been in industry for 40 years. I started with a slide rule protect protector. I was (and still are if you ask me ex) a nerd. Back then, very few engineers had social skills: couldn't write, communicate, work in teams. We didn't get out much. It was all about knowledge,

It is different today: I have interviewed candidates, potential hires and mentor a very young staff of 5 engineers. I not only need their knowledge, I need their ability to read, write, work in teams, communicate with all types of people in many disciplines. They need to be able to speak in front of small to large groups, be able to resolve conflict, listen and recover from failure. I also need them to be creative, think and problem solve.

I also have (2) women on my staff, something I never saw 40 years ago.


Education continues either formally of informally. You never stop learning because if you do lose your marketability. Companies, come/go , get bought/sold, moved/consolidated all of the time. My first job was in the stamping press industry: the American made equipment and companies are gone. I worked in the steel mills for 7 years - they are gone. Technology changes and you need to grow with it.

I am a lucky guy in that I always wanted to be an engineer - I like what I do and do it very well. I have been blessed to have been given opportunities and grow as a professional. It is not all luck, because no one is that lucky. I have never turned down an assignment even if it isn't in my area of expertise. I use a problem solving /analytically approach. Define the problem, ask why 5X : 80% of solving the problem is understanding what the problem is.

My hobby is painting in pastels - I had artistic talent since I was a kid - I continued to develop the craft over many years. It made me a better engineer, that's another story.


Engineers are arrogant compared to who? CEOs - now that is an arrogant group!

^+1 Agree!

I know we all have gifts and talents.
What one person can do is sometimes impossible for an other.
I speak math in the most elementary of terms .
How ever I have other talents.
In the end we all can appreciate each other.
The engineers on this board (for the most part) have never talked dwn to me and always been helpful..
At least never called me stupid...LOL
I am happy they are here and speak numbers fluently.
I do not think just "anyone' can run off to school and learn this trade (enginameering)
In there somewhere there has to be a knack for it too.

Personally I enjoy working with engineers for the most part. I enjoy learning the 'scientific principles' behind things I take for granted. As someone else has stated in my experience engineers are no more arrogant than any other occupation.

My office (construction/industrial plumbing) has 4 engineers, I am not one. One of my cousins/partners is a nuclear engineer, the other a mechanical engineer and PE, plus two other engineers on staff.

They do a great job on the difficult problems but come to me when the conversation turns to the practical side.

I have the highest respect for engineers, but sometimes it takes the grunts to solve the problem, simply, not the over thought complicated solutions I usually get from them.

They (engineers) are cocky, probably due to their education and being considered a professional, like some docs and lawyers.

Just my 2 cents.

^^ There's a broad range of "engineers". Even within the sub-set of "Mechanical Engineers" there are some that are all about theory and some that love to get out into the machine shop or pick up the torch.

Go get an Engineering Degree then. What this means is you pretty don't get booty for four years. Take tests that literally make you cry. Take finals that need 5-7 days of solid study time.

Am I arrogant ?? No. Do I think your comment is mindless....? Yes.

One thing I've noticed in my limited lifespan is that those with education tend to overestimate the importance of formal education. And those with little education tend to underestimate its value.

That's deep, man. :cool:

I know NY65912, Mike, in real life, he is a business owner... a successful business owner..I respect his outlook....

Even though I am an "arrogant engineer" Mikes, views are valid...

Disclaimer: I am an Engineer

So why are we picking on each other??? ;)

Now for some more fun. Let's talk about architects too. Architects and engineers are my favorite people.

Change orders $$$$$

We are installing a slew of fire pumps at the PA bus terminal in NYC. The authority's engineers called us and the supplier to help design the system because they were unfamiliar with this brand/type of pump. Never mind all the controls left off of the contract drawings. How about a mental health/psych ward in Brooklyn that the architect forgot to make suicide proof? 1M in change orders, thanks. Plus a delay claim due to poor design that led to cost overruns which stretched out the schedule by 18 months, a 1M claim.

The point is that many engineers look down at those who are not an engineer. It's a matter of being realistic, some are some are not. I don't take to people who think or at least act as they are better than anyone else, engineers or otherwise.

Thanks Tim. I hope to see you at the track soon.

ShakinJoe,
Mindless, no, I am just voicing an opinion based on my experiences. Your commenting on my statement seems that I hit a nerve. Sorry if I offended you. Running a large construction firm that holds many contracts with the City of New York as well as Amtrak, Metro North, building hospitals, water treatment and schools for 37 years I don't think is done by someone who is mindless.

Cheers

Mike,

No offense intended or taken. I thought the comment was mindless, not you!:p

I think there are idiots in all professions. Some even make it to be President of the USA

No, it's a point of reference. If he puts no great value on an engineering degree and he is a high school drop-out, that's far different from a Life Sciences grad that has a similar viewpoint. That's not arrogance, that's trying to understand his perspective so that a proper argument can be tailored to crush his 'hypothesis' with appropriate facts.

When we denigrate his inferior credentials then we prove his point.

have you met many pharmacists?

Exactly! It's never the engineer's fault.....SmileWavy