There's a farmer on here?

I work in a division (485 people) called "Weapons Systems Engineering". Some of us do systems engineering, some of us do test and qualification stuff, some of us do basic research on detonation/shock physics and some others do stuff with hydrogen-materials interactions. Our degrees cover: (duh) engineering, chemistry, metallurgy and physics. Some HR monkey has declared that, since we're in "... systems engineering", we all must be engineers.

There were not a few bad feelings among the chemistry and physics PhDs. Primadonnas all of them - even worse than chemical engineers.

That would NEVER happen at ORNL. Never, never

BTW - if you know a guy who was called Goodsie in college, tell him hi from me. He's Dr. Goodsie now (Mat. Sci.).

I'll be nicer if you be smarter.

I didn't miss that, but then there are a lot of things I don't miss. ;)

Some of my best friends are engineers. This is all in good fun.

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Wow. This was obviously a topic that touch a lot of people.

I have an HP41 app on my iPhone. SmileWavy

That's hilarious! I need to get that, so I can leave my HP48G at home.

Relax Hugh. His post immediately died on the vine as we all went off in various directions, "acting" pompous, arrogant, humorous, nerdy, evil genius, etc. This is OT, where we tend to play better. ;)

It's awesome. It's called "i41CX". I'm afraid to admit that I use it all the time.

I still use my HP41CV that I bought brand new in 1982. It's sitting on my desk as I type this. They'll have to pry it out of my cold, dead fingers.

That's funny. When I first started at ORNL I was told that engineers are "second class citizens". I shrugged it off, but it's true. It's an interesting social and professional dynamic.

Our value here is to arrogantly tell the PhD physicists why their crazy idea won't actually work. I stood and listened to one physicist spend 10 minutes describing this thing he wanted to do during an upcoming outage. He had it all figured out. He got done and asked what I thought. I said, "Yeah, technically we can do that. Unfortunately the radiation levels will kill all of the technicians, though.". He hadn't thought about that part... ;)

I don't have much experience with engineers but around here is the triple PHDs out of MIT, Harvard, etc. I don't find them arrogant.

I do enjoy being invited to parties and watching them interact with each other...

Even if you do find that an engineer is arrogant and you tell him he is arrogant I really don't think that he/she will change....he will still wonder why you are avoiding him.:confused:

I used to have a little computer club group that met at my office in the front lobby back in the 1980s and 1990s. I was the only non engineer. One guy was the multiple time engineer of the year at AT&T back in the 80s. Several were engineers at Seagate one was at the FAA.

They were a great group of men. Most were retired or close to retiring. We all tinkered with computers back before the internet.

I wish I had my camera at one meeting. As we were breaking up to go home 5 engineers were standing up and chatting and ALL of them were looking at their shoes.

It kinda backfired on the OP's intended trolling, didn't it?
Maybe if he had a degree ....... or a clue.

You hear it often from some folks that play down a degree or a profession and they have no idea what the educated have to go through. Engineers, doctors, dentists etc have to have internships, experience. I give them all credit as they have studied so hard......and the engineer has to sit down 8 hours a day and crunch numbers. The dentist has to stand all day looking at and working on patients' teeth.

I never complain about engineers while driving over a bridge in the same context that I never ***** about farmers with my mouth full.

An 8-hour day is one where I go home really early.

HA! HA! VERY funny Dennis! well done. I managed a group of (mostly) software engineers and they require a different approach from either artists or "mere mortals".

I do not ascribe to the opinion of the OP but I do think Dennis has identified some personality traits often found in people who pursue an engineering career.

I, like many others, have anecdotal experiences with engineers where the optimum response is to smile knowingly and just walk away...... :)

I think irrespective of what a person does for a living, once identified as one who NEVER takes any advice, it is best to stop trying to give said advice.

Perhaps the flaw in engineering thinking, if there is one, is the belief that the application of logic answers all questions. In undergrad the Jesuits spent 4 years pounding that into our heads, it took another 3 years of grad school to completely remove it......:eek:

"I've worked with a lot of good engineers and most of these don't tend to suffer fools which to a bull$hitter could be perceived as arrogance. I have also worked with a whole lot of arrogant guys who spent their time telling people what they knew rather than trying to understand what they didn't know." <= This is true in many walks of life........ Bull****ters REALLY hate it when they are called on it with facts, confidence and experience. AND it is a thing of beauty to behold OR participate in! :)

In closing, thank god for engineers and for that matter people in general who ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING.

Kinda stoopid to stereotype all of 'us'.
Insecure people find me arrogant.
Confident people find me confident.
Its all perception.

the whole PE thing is kinda over blown. in lots of areas its super important to be a PE, but in lots of other areas its not. most research and development type engineers are not PEs, but most folks who make products and structures for general use are. just depends on your field.

Good one. Seriously, "software engineers" WTF? I mean even "sanitation engineers" put more thought into piling garbage higher and higher.

That is, engineers optimize. Whereas "software engineers" just pile code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code, on top of code....

Or the OP doesn't realize that arrogance is irrelevant. Engineers are concerned with the serious business of solving problems through the effective and efficient application of technology or processes. In other words, solutions delivered within spec and tolerance, on time and on budget. Who cares whose panties get bound up.<O:p</O:p

In aerospace being a licensed PE is basically worthless. Maybe because everything requires a large team and government oversight, it's not just one engineer with a stamp certifying that a new bridge is safe.

I was thinking of Dilbert to answer the OP as well. Engineers have to constantly try to design things so "the masses" do not kill themselves with their designs. Amazing how "the masses" can creatively destroy or kill stuff. When that happens, guess who gets the blame? Not the guy who found a new way to goober something.

One of the amazing things - is trying to dummy proof electrical systems. I do not envy their jobs.

no body gives a flying care about PE in oilfield either. I have an msme but no PE. I guess Im not a real engineer, which expains my lack of arrogance and my mad skillz chatting up the ladies.

"software engineers" are just programmers

I have a question for Hall Monitor Hugh - Are you an engineer?

Let's start with you, since you seem awful proud of yourself.

'On time'.....huh?....and there's a budget?

PE's are important for Mechanical, Electrical, and Plumbing. Most stuff is over-engineered for liability reasons. For example: Air Conditioning is sized for the worst case scenario based on Ambient conditions and Occupancy factors. Even if that worst case is 10 days of the year, it has to be met. So much stuff is oversized for this reason!

Aschen,

I like your style. I am up your ways quite a bit visiting clients. Want to grab a beer and share oilfield stories?
SmileWavy

I wanted to be Kirk...

banging all the alien chicks... yeah baby!

There are many ways to deal with aberrant behavior. The replies to this thread pretty much diffused any intent that the OP may or may not have had.

sure, that and...

Engineer - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

I'd disagree with you, there are definitely software engineers. I would not say all programmers or coders are doing software engineering, but the job title can certainly exist.

When writing code for CNC machines, I mentally "engineer" the lay out of the code, then proceed to simply plug in the numbers. The second part isn't engineering at all, however, this gives me a personal glimpse into the most basic of the coding world. I can easily see that with the power of modern computers that complicated software would require software engineers to bring it all together.

Couldn't you have compiled that first???

Sheesh!:D

Looks like Microsoft.

I don't even see the code anymore.... I see a blonde, a redhead, a brunette...